September 2017 - tlhIngan-Hol

Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Hech
by SuStel 29 Sep '17

29 Sep '17

On 9/29/2017 1:51 PM, nIqolay Q wrote: > On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 1:40 PM, SuStel <sustel(a)trimboli.name > <mailto:sustel@trimboli.name>> wrote: > > I do think there are ways to use *Hech* that don't involve *'e'.* > Here's an example: > > nablIj wIlajchugh qaS Qugh. nab vIHechbogh jIH wIlajchugh > maQapchu'. > > *toH!* So the question here is not whether *Hech* needs a *'e'*, but > more specifically whether a quoted word itself can be considered as an > intended outcome, with the implication of something intended to have > been written or spoken. > > (This is the sort of situation where the "avoid being too Englishy" > lobe of my brain starts acting up. Is this an English affectation I > should avoid? Or is it the sort of obvious metaphor that most > languages might develop naturally and I'm just being needlessly > pedantic? This comes up a lot for me.) That is the question for me, yes. It's possible that only *'e'* and *net* are allowed; it's possible that anything you intend to /do/ or /happen/ is allowed, whether represented by single nouns or whole sentences; it's possible that even quoted speech and writing is allowed. But when people say things like /*jul*/*vIHech,* I hear them discarding the /mean to/ part of the definition to get it to match English. It's very unclear, and needs Okrandian clarification. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] All klingon trailer
by SuStel 29 Sep '17

29 Sep '17

On 9/29/2017 1:38 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote: > To be honest, I can't perfectly "feel" the exact meaning of > "complacent", since in greek we don't possess a single word to > encompass its whole meaning, as I read it in google translate. > > Perhaps {maSaHHa'choH 'ej manguqchoH}, would work too, but I don't > know for sure.. /Complacent/ doesn't really have an /arrogant/ connotation, except that someone who is complacent when danger is bearing down on him might be complacent because he is arrogant about his abilities. But it's not in the core meaning of the word. It means you're content with yourself or your situation and not concerned with making changes or progress. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Hech
by nIqolay Q 29 Sep '17

29 Sep '17

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 1:40 PM, SuStel <sustel(a)trimboli.name> wrote: > > I do think there are ways to use *Hech* that don't involve *'e'.* Here's > an example: > > nablIj wIlajchugh qaS Qugh. nab vIHechbogh jIH wIlajchugh maQapchu'. > > *toH!* So the question here is not whether *Hech* needs a *'e'*, but more specifically whether a quoted word itself can be considered as an intended outcome, with the implication of something intended to have been written or spoken. (This is the sort of situation where the "avoid being too Englishy" lobe of my brain starts acting up. Is this an English affectation I should avoid? Or is it the sort of obvious metaphor that most languages might develop naturally and I'm just being needlessly pedantic? This comes up a lot for me.)

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Klingon Word of the Day: vung
by mayqel qunenoS 29 Sep '17

29 Sep '17

ghunchu'wI': > toH. «qay'wI'» DalaDDI', nuq Dayaj? I would understand "something that is a problem". Am I wrong ? qunnoq On Sep 29, 2017 20:29, "Alan Anderson" <qunchuy(a)alcaco.net> wrote: > On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 12:30 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> 'a {vungwI'} vilaD net jalchugh, vaj "hurricaner" vIyaj. "hurricane" >> vIyajbe'.. >> > > toH. «qay'wI'» DalaDDI', nuq Dayaj? > > -- ghunchu'wI' > > _______________________________________________ > tlhIngan-Hol mailing list > tlhIngan-Hol(a)lists.kli.org > http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org > >

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Hech
by nIqolay Q 29 Sep '17

29 Sep '17

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 1:32 PM, SuStel <sustel(a)trimboli.name> wrote: > > A clipped form of something long that just *happens* to exactly resemble > something shorter that is the Englishy way you want to say it anyway is > just a *little* too convenient for my tastes. > You have a good point about being too Englishy, and it's good to keep in mind. But on the other hand, it's not like English is the only language that shortens things, and using *Hech *with a noun object that represents some sort of intended outcome doesn't seem to me to stretch the basic idea of the verb so much that a Klingon would only consider it after too much exposure to *DIvI' Hol*.

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Hech
by mayqel qunenoS 29 Sep '17

29 Sep '17

The verb {Hech} is given as "intend, mean to". However I wonder.. does it always have to have the meaning "mean to" ? For example, can we say: {{juH} vIHechbe'; {jul} vIHech} I didn't mean {juH}, I meant {jul} qunnoq

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] All klingon trailer
by mayqel qunenoS 29 Sep '17

29 Sep '17

To be honest, I can't perfectly "feel" the exact meaning of "complacent", since in greek we don't possess a single word to encompass its whole meaning, as I read it in google translate. Perhaps {maSaHHa'choH 'ej manguqchoH}, would work too, but I don't know for sure.. qunnoq On Sep 29, 2017 20:29, "SuStel" <sustel(a)trimboli.name> wrote: On 9/29/2017 1:23 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote: Anyways, I did however ask myself how I would choose to express the "we have become complacent", because I can't understand how they express it in that trailer, and I came up with: {maSaHHa'choH} *We become unconcerned.* It's not quite enough for me; I'd add a bit: *maSaHHa'choH 'ej mayonchoH** we become unconcerned and satisfied.* The claim that Klingon is more compact than English isn't necessarily true: English has many simple words that take several in Klingon. -- SuStelhttp://trimboli.name _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol(a)lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] All klingon trailer
by SuStel 29 Sep '17

29 Sep '17

On 9/29/2017 1:23 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote: > Anyways, I did however ask myself how I would choose to express the > "we have become complacent", because I can't understand how they > express it in that trailer, and I came up with: > > {maSaHHa'choH} /We become unconcerned./ It's not quite enough for me; I'd add a bit: *maSaHHa'choH 'ej mayonchoH*/we become unconcerned and satisfied./ The claim that Klingon is more compact than English isn't necessarily true: English has many simple words that take several in Klingon. // -- SuStel http://trimboli.name

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Klingon Word of the Day: vung
by mayqel qunenoS 29 Sep '17

29 Sep '17

po'wI' jIHbe'mo', ram vuDwIj.. 'a {vungwI'} vilaD net jalchugh, vaj "hurricaner" vIyaj. "hurricane" vIyajbe'.. qunnoq On Sep 29, 2017 19:25, "nIqolay Q" <niqolay0(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Here's a question: Since the implied subject of weather words is usually > *muD* (or sometimes maybe *chal* for precipitation and the like), how > would you all interpret *vungwI'*? > Would you read it as the noun "hurricane", as in the part of the > atmosphere that's hurricaning, considered as a single system? (So you could > perhaps say something like *FloridaDaq ghoSlI' 'Irma' vungwI'* *"Hurricane > Irma is approaching Florida"*, with the assumption that "hurricane" is > treated like a rank or title.) > Or would it be taken to mean something less specific or useful, like "the > atmosphere as a whole, which happens to be hurricaning somewhere", assuming > it means anything at all? > > > On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Steven Boozer <sboozer(a)uchicago.edu> > wrote: > >> Klingon word: vung >> Part of speech: verb >> Definition: cyclone, hurricane >> Source: qep'a' 24 [2017] >> _______________________________________________ >> >> "storm like a hurricane/cyclone" >> >> SEE ALSO: >> jev storm (v) >> SIS rain (v) >> cheq storm like a tornado, tornado (v) >> ver be spiral (v) >> >> (qurgh < MO, qep'a' 2017): You can also say {ver SuS'a'} "a tornado >> happens" (literally: "the big wind spirals"). {ver SuS} (or {ver SuSHom}) >> would most likely refer to a whirlwind. >> >> -- >> Voragh >> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list >> tlhIngan-Hol(a)lists.kli.org >> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org >> > > > _______________________________________________ > tlhIngan-Hol mailing list > tlhIngan-Hol(a)lists.kli.org > http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org > >

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] All klingon trailer
by mayqel qunenoS 29 Sep '17

29 Sep '17

bIlugh ! DuHvam vIQubbe' ! 'a qaghel vIneH.. {qaStaH veS poH veb} nungbogh mu'tlheghmey'e', Dayaj'a' ? trailer bI'reS mu'tlheghmey.. qunnoq On Sep 29, 2017 19:16, "SuStel" <sustel(a)trimboli.name> wrote: > On 9/29/2017 12:08 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote: > > {may' luqotlhbogh lunobmeH} vIQoy. > > 'a naDev, qay'wI' tu'lu'; prefix trick ngaSlaw' mu'tlhegh Qav, 'a prefix > trick lo'laHbe' mu'tlheghvam; pa', first or second person beneficiary > tu'be'lu'mo'. > > I hear *may' luqotlhbogh wInobmeH** in order that we give them the battle > which they deserve.* No prefix trick involved. > > -- > SuStelhttp://trimboli.name > > > _______________________________________________ > tlhIngan-Hol mailing list > tlhIngan-Hol(a)lists.kli.org > http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org > >

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