At another thread we accepted the following as being correct: {tlhIngan maH. taHjaj} we are klingons. may it continue. And the way I understand the above sentence, it goes "may it continue. what ? the fact that we are klingons". Lets assume now that I write the following: {latlh be' vImuSHa'. 'e' DaSov} I love another woman. You know that. Based on the {tlhIngan maH. taHjaj}, why couldn't I write too: {latlh be' vImuSHa. DaSov} I love another woman. You know it. And be equally correct ? Do I necessarily need to place the {'e'} before the {DaSov} ? mayqel
On 27 September 2017 at 10:26, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
At another thread we accepted the following as being correct:
{tlhIngan maH. taHjaj} we are klingons. may it continue.
And the way I understand the above sentence, it goes "may it continue. what ? the fact that we are klingons".
Lets assume now that I write the following:
{latlh be' vImuSHa'. 'e' DaSov} I love another woman. You know that.
Based on the {tlhIngan maH. taHjaj}, why couldn't I write too:
{latlh be' vImuSHa. DaSov} I love another woman. You know it.
And be equally correct ? Do I necessarily need to place the {'e'} before the {DaSov} ?
Let me ask you this: "You know that I love another woman." "I love another woman. You know it." Are these English sentences equally correct? It's the same difference. -- De'vID
Am 27.09.2017 um 11:23 schrieb De'vID:> Let me ask you this:> "You know that I love another woman."> "I love another woman. You know it."> > Are these English sentences equally correct? It's the same difference. True, but in Klingon, the word order does not change: {be' vImaS 'e' DaSov} {be' vImaS --- DaSov} I would prefer to use the {'e'} in such conctructions to make sure that {Sov} refers to the previous sentence. If taken literally, {DaSov} by itself might refer to something else. Using {'e'} makes the object of {Sov} clear. Note that prefix Da- could refer also to the woman, so {be' vImaS 'e' DaSov} "You know I prefer the woman" {be' vImaS. DaSov.} "I prefer the woman. You know that." but also "I prefer the woman. You know HER." -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonwiki.net
De'vID;
Let me ask you this: "You know that I love another woman." "I love another woman. You know it." Are these English sentences equally correct?
You're right; there is a difference between them. Not a great difference, but a difference nevertheless. Perhaps it would come down to individual writing style, which one of the two one would choose. I don't think that either one of them is wrong though. Since DIvI' Hol isn't my native language, I would say that they are both equally correct. Or at least, I think that they are. lieven:
Note that prefix Da- could refer also to the woman, so {be' vImaS 'e' DaSov} "You know I prefer the woman" {be' vImaS. DaSov.} "I prefer the woman. You know that." but also "I prefer the woman. You know HER."
This is a very interesting comment; I have to admit that this possibility hadn't crossed my mind.. Anyway, the reason I started this thread, was that I was under the impression that the {latlh be' vImuSHa. DaSov} was grammatically wrong. However, now I understand, so thanks ! mayqel On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 12:37 PM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 27.09.2017 um 11:23 schrieb De'vID:> Let me ask you this:> "You know that I love another woman."> "I love another woman. You know it."> > Are these English sentences equally correct? It's the same difference. True, but in Klingon, the word order does not change:
{be' vImaS 'e' DaSov} {be' vImaS --- DaSov}
I would prefer to use the {'e'} in such conctructions to make sure that {Sov} refers to the previous sentence. If taken literally, {DaSov} by itself might refer to something else. Using {'e'} makes the object of {Sov} clear.
Note that prefix Da- could refer also to the woman, so
{be' vImaS 'e' DaSov} "You know I prefer the woman"
{be' vImaS. DaSov.} "I prefer the woman. You know that." but also "I prefer the woman. You know HER."
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonwiki.net
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Am 27.09.2017 um 10:26 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
{tlhIngan maH. taHjaj} we are klingons. may it continue.
And the way I understand the above sentence, it goes "may it continue. what ? the fact that we are klingons".
Watch out! Do not mix this up, this is not a SAO. You cannot say *tlhIngan maH 'e' taHjaj* The {taHjaj} here refers to the fact that we are klingons, so it's actually the subject. {tlhIngan maH. taHjaj ngoDvam} "we are klingons. may this fact continue." (We recently had the same situation with {teH}.)
{latlh be' vImuSHa. DaSov} I love another woman. You know it.
And be equally correct ? Do I necessarily need to place the {'e'} before the {DaSov} ?
I'm sure that is these examples, it's okay to omit the {'e'} but I won't say that is always the case. It's like in English: "I'm hungry. You know it." If you like a canon basis, check ST6: Klingon: Daq SovlaHbe'taH qIrq. Chang: DaSovbej'a'? -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.net http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/ST6
On 9/27/2017 4:26 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
At another thread we accepted the following as being correct:
{tlhIngan maH. taHjaj} we are klingons. may it continue.
And the way I understand the above sentence, it goes "may it continue. what ? the fact that we are klingons".
Lets assume now that I write the following:
{latlh be' vImuSHa'. 'e' DaSov} I love another woman. You know that.
Based on the {tlhIngan maH. taHjaj}, why couldn't I write too:
{latlh be' vImuSHa. DaSov} I love another woman. You know it.
And be equally correct ? Do I necessarily need to place the {'e'} before the {DaSov} ?
In addition to the other replies, consider also that Qov obviously wanted to include the common and classic utterance *tlhIngan maH* in what is supposed to be an important and repeated line. It's not just some random sentence; it's a slogan. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
SuStel:
In addition to the other replies, consider also that Qov obviously wanted to include the common and classic utterance tlhIngan maH in what is supposed to be an important and repeated line. It's not just some random sentence; it's a slogan.
So, would you say that the following: {latlh be' vImuSHa. DaSov} I love another woman. You know it. Is grammatically wrong and should not be used, or it is grammatically correct but for the reasons already stated in this thread, the {latlh be' vImuSHa'. 'e' DaSov} is better ? mayqel On Sep 27, 2017 16:27, "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 9/27/2017 4:26 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
At another thread we accepted the following as being correct:
{tlhIngan maH. taHjaj} we are klingons. may it continue.
And the way I understand the above sentence, it goes "may it continue. what ? the fact that we are klingons".
Lets assume now that I write the following:
{latlh be' vImuSHa'. 'e' DaSov} I love another woman. You know that.
Based on the {tlhIngan maH. taHjaj}, why couldn't I write too:
{latlh be' vImuSHa. DaSov} I love another woman. You know it.
And be equally correct ? Do I necessarily need to place the {'e'} before the {DaSov} ?
In addition to the other replies, consider also that Qov obviously wanted to include the common and classic utterance *tlhIngan maH* in what is supposed to be an important and repeated line. It's not just some random sentence; it's a slogan.
-- SuStelhttp://trimboli.name
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 9:40 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
So, would you say that the following:
{latlh be' vImuSHa. DaSov} I love another woman. You know it.
Is grammatically wrong and should not be used, or it is grammatically correct but for the reasons already stated in this thread, the {latlh be' vImuSHa'. 'e' DaSov} is better ?
Why would it be grammatically wrong? It might be unclear, as Lieven pointed out, but there's nothing inherently ungrammatical about it.
Perhaps it’s colloquial. Compare English “I love another woman, you know”… or “ya know”… or even “y’know”. --Voragh From: nIqolay Q On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 9:40 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com<mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com>> wrote: So, would you say that the following: {latlh be' vImuSHa. DaSov} I love another woman. You know it. Is grammatically wrong and should not be used, or it is grammatically correct but for the reasons already stated in this thread, the {latlh be' vImuSHa'. 'e' DaSov} is better ? Why would it be grammatically wrong? It might be unclear, as Lieven pointed out, but there's nothing inherently ungrammatical about it.
ja' mayqel:
Is grammatically wrong and should not be used, or it is grammatically correct but for the reasons already stated in this thread, the {latlh be' vImuSHa'. 'e' DaSov} is better ?
ja' nIqolay:
Why would it be grammatically wrong? It might be unclear, as Lieven pointed out, but there's nothing inherently ungrammatical about it.
The difference might also be like in I love another woman. You know it. vs. I love another woman. You know that. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.net http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/StarTrekDiscovery
On 9/27/2017 9:40 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
So, would you say that the following:
{latlh be' vImuSHa. DaSov} I love another woman. You know it.
Is grammatically wrong and should not be used, or it is grammatically correct but for the reasons already stated in this thread, the {latlh be' vImuSHa'. 'e' DaSov} is better ?
See the other responses to this question. My basic answer is that it's the difference between a single thought and two thoughts. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
participants (6)
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De'vID -
Lieven -
mayqel qunenoS -
nIqolay Q -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel