September 2020 - tlhIngan-Hol

New words from Hamletmachine
by Lieven L. Litaer 28 Dec '23

28 Dec '23

For the creation of the play {mu' mu' mu'} by the Dutch theatre company URLAND that premiered on 4th of March 2020, I was asked to translate a German play into Klingon, which was partially used in their play. The play "Die Hamletmaschine" by German author Heiner Müller was written in 1977, is internationally known and has been translated into several languages. During translation work, I got help from Marc Okrand who could discuss some useful information with Maltz. Due to some copyright situations, I cannot publish the translation right now, but I do not want to keep those words hidden until publication until then, so here we go. For a clearer and more "colorful" overview, see the page at the Klingon Language wiki: http://klingon.wiki/En/Hamletmachine Body parts: == Okrand quote == {nev'ob} refers to both the "thigh" and the "upper arm" (above the elbow). Similarly, {reStav} refers to both the "shin" and the "forearm." If it's necessary to make a distinction, precede these words with {'uS} or {DeS}. {cha'neH}, when used alone, means "forearm." But when preceded by {'uS}, it means "lower part of the leg." You could also say {DeS cha'neH} for "forearm," but this would probably be used only in a context where you were talking about both the forearm and the lower leg and wanted to clarify which was which. {reStav} is "shin," meaning the front of the lower leg. (I assume "Schienbein" is "shin bone." {reStav} is more than just the bone. The only way Maltz was aware of for referring to the bone is {reStav Hom}.) {Do'ghI'} is "calf," meaning the back of the lower leg ("Wade," presumably). == Okrand quote end == Clarifying "hang": == Okrand quote == {HuS} takes an object. If your shoes are hanging on a wall it's because somebody hung them there. {HuS} is not used to mean "lynch" or "execute by hanging." That's a different word: {jIb}. (Maltz thought maybe an early form of torture or execution was hanging people by their hair, but he wasn't totally sure about this and may have just been reacting to the homophony.) And there's another word: {tlhep} "be suspended, be dangling." Use {HuS} if, for example, you hang your coat on a hook on the wall or hang sheets on a clothesline to dry. But if, say, you see a spider dangling at the bottom of one of those silk threads that spiders extrude, use {tlhep}. Or if you see a pair of shoes tied together by the laces and, for whatever reason, they're hanging by the tied-together laces from an overhead power wire, use {tlhep}. == Okrand quote end == Okrand agreed that {jIb'egh} is "suicide by hanging". Next, there was a question about a "concubine": == Okrand quote == Maltz thought the best word for this might be {lIwnal}, though maybe not: the cultural connotations are a bit different since, in Klingon culture, everything associated with a {lIwnal} lacks honor, and this is not necessarily the case for a (Terran) king's concubines or courtesans. Note that only married people could have a partner who could be considered a {lIwnal}. Also, {lIwnal} could be male or female, so if it's necessary to distinguish, say {loD lIwnal} or {be' lIwnal}. == Okrand quote end == More words: {ghenlan} - Greenland (country) {qaw'} - flip over {qaw'moH} - flip over (i.e. "make something flip over") {rIv} - split {vIrgh} - rip (up), slash, tear (up), gash {'o'nI'} - foam, froth Not new words, but combined translations: {DeSwar bIr} - refrigerator {jorchan velqa'} - stage decoration {much jech} - costume {much yaH} - stage {qab jech} - mask Transliterations: {qo'qa' qo'la'} - Coca Cola {lIyenIn} - Lenin {maw} - Mao The question for a "stage" was answered with a general statement: == Okrand quote == Any place specifically designated for the performance of a specific task (or tasks) is a {yaH}. A stage is the {yaH} for the performance of plays or, perhaps, music. A football field is the {yaH} for a football game. A laboratory is a scientist's {yaH}. And, of course, on a ship, a {yaH} is a duty station. If context isn't enough to clarify what sort of {yaH} it is, you can say things like {much yaH}, {QoQ yaH}, {tamlerQeD yaH}, etc. == Okrand quote end == There's an idiom for "kill time": {'ebmey jonHa'} Talking about a "virgin", Okrand suggested saying it literally what a virgin is: {pagh ngaghpu'bogh be'} or {not vay' ngaghpu'bogh be'} Doing so, he answered the question if {ngagh} can be used with people. And in case anyone wondered, {jach} is a good verb to describe what a {jajlo' Qa'} does. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://klingon.wiki/En/Hamletmachine

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pseudo-Klingon words from the paq'batlh
by De'vID 27 May '22

27 May '22

What do people think about the following Klingon "words" from paq'batlh? They don't appear in the main (Klingon-language) text, but are used in otherwise English sentences in the introduction or footnotes. xxii. {Huy'reH} "aria style" xxii, 62, 87. {cha'ang} "chorus style" xvii, xxii, xxxv. {Qich'lut} "narrator style" xix. {paq'jachchu} "Book of the Perfect Scream" {Huy'reH} and {cha'ang}, at least, seem to follow proper modern {tlhIngan Hol} phonology. {Qich'lut} has a lower-cased "i" and an out-of-place {qaghwI'}. {paq'jachchu} has that apostrophe after {paq} and a missing {qaghwI'} at the end (if the {jachchu} part is indeed the verb {jachchu'}, as the English translation seems to indicate). On p.xxx, it is explicitly stated that the name {paq'batlh} is in {no' Hol} and that the apostrophe may be a clue to some missing grammatical element. Of course, the book also has sections named {paq'yav}, {paq'raD}, and {paq'QIH}. So {paq'jachchu} is probably just spelled weirdly for the same reason. Should {Huy'reH} and {cha'ang} be accepted as canon Klingon words as-is? In other words, would you expect them in a new words list? (In particular, I am asking if they should be listed in {boQwI'}.) The word {Qich'lut} is spelled that way all three times it appears in the book. I notice that in previous discussions on this mailing list, 'IQqu' and Voragh have both spelled it as {QIch lut} (capital-I, no apostrophe, space between the two words). Should {QIch lut} be accepted as the "modern" spelling for the purpose of look-up in word lists? -- De'vID

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'op after the noun
by mayqel qunen'oS 04 Apr '22

04 Apr '22

The {'op} is defined as "some, an unknown or unspecified quantity", and in the Ca'Non example of Skybox 7 it is used as {'op SuvwI'} i.e in front of a countable noun which doesn't have the plural suffix. The relevant part of that sentence is: {DujvamDaq 'op SuvwI' tu'lu'bogh po' law' tlhIngan yo' SuvwI' law' po' puS} Suppose we say {'op na'ran Soppu' qeSHoS}. Then this could mean either "the fox ate some/an unspecified quantity of an orange", or "the fox ate some/an unspecified quantity of oranges". Perhaps one could argue that based on the Ca'Non example of the Skybox 7, "the 'op before a singular noun is to be interpreted as referring to a plural number of that noun". But I don't know if one could argue that, since in this Ca'Non example, interpreting the {SuvwI'} as being singular is impossible. Because, if interpreting the {SuvwI'} as being singular was possible, then that would mean that "the klingon vessel pagh has some/an unspecified quantity of a warrior", i.e. on the pagh happen to serve some of the most skilled legs/arms/DaynguHDu'/whatever of a warrior in the klingon fleet. Of course in star trek everything is possible, on the other hand though, I think that one could come to the following conclusion with regards to the {'op}: Placing the {'op} before a countable noun which has no plural suffix, could mean either "some, an unknown or unspecified quantity of that noun (singular)" or "some, an unknown or unspecified quantity of a number of that noun". While placing the {'op} before an uncountable noun can only mean ""some/an unspecified quantity of that noun (singular)". Of course, I don't know for sure if this conclusion would be correct.. But now let's get back to the fox.. If I write {'op na'ranmey Soppu' qeSHoS}, then this obviously means ""the fox ate some/an unspecified quantity of oranges". But my problem is that this is ambiguous in the following way: Did the fox walk in the house, find an unspecified quantity of oranges and ate them all ? Or did the fox walk into the house, found 40 oranges and ate some of them ? And if the fox indeed ate only some of the oranges, then why not write {na'ranmey 'op Soppu' qeSHoS} ? After all, we *can* write {pItSa' HochHom Soppu' vIghro' tIQ} for "the ancient cat ate almost all of the pizza". ~ Qa'yIn

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does -jaj have the "may your request be granted" meaning ?
by mayqel qunen'oS 01 Oct '20

01 Oct '20

SoS tu'lu', 'ej bIghHa'Daq ghaHtaH puqloDDaj'e'. puqloDDaj jonHa'meH voDleH, voDleH qoy'choH SoS, 'ej tagha' Qochbe' voDleH, vaj jatlh: "may your request be granted". mu'tlheghvam wImughmeH, maqon: {qaSjaj chaballIj}. lugh'a' {-jaj} lo'vam ? ~ Qa'yIn

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Klingon Word of the Day: ngat 'atlhqam
by Klingon Word of the Day 30 Sep '20

30 Sep '20

Klingon Word of the Day for Wednesday, September 30, 2020 Klingon word: ngat 'atlhqam Part of speech: noun Definition: a type of mold Source: qep'a' 25 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Beginner questions - SAO, SAS and pronouns
by Luis Chaparro Caballero 29 Sep '20

29 Sep '20

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Beginner questions - SAO, SAS and pronouns
by Luis Chaparro Caballero 29 Sep '20

29 Sep '20

Hi SuStel, thank you very much for your answer. It was really clarifying! The discussion I was referring to (about droping the pronoung "'e'") is here: http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/2017-September/005856.h… But your explanation makes it clear for me. I still have some questions nonetheless: > When you explicitly use a pronoun, you're making it clear that that's > the pronoun you have in mind, or you're speaking extra-clearly to make > sure you've been heard. If I say *HoD Duj vIlegh*/I see the captain's > ship/ and then follow it up with *vIghov,* am I saying I recognize the > captain or the ship? I can clarify by explicitly using a pronoun: *ghaH > vIghov*/I recognize him/her/ or *'oH vIghov*/I recognize it./ > Here the prefix makes the sentence clear. Why do we use "jIH" here if its not for emphasis? I understand we can use the pronouns in order to make an ambiguous sentence clear. But in TKD we see this example: yaS vIlegh jIH Here the prefix makes the sentence clear. Why are we using "jIH"? Is that what you mean when you say "speaking extra-clearly to make sure you've been heard"? > > 3. And what if the first sentence is intended to be the subject of the second one? paq Daje'pu'. QaQ. > I would assume that the elided subject of *QaQ* is *paq.* You cannot > have a sentence act as subject. This pair of sentences cannot mean /Your > buying the book was good./ > Another reason to think that you can't elide *'e'* as object. So if I want to say something like "It's good that you have bought the book" or "Your buying the book is good" and avoid that people understand "the book is good", then I need a noun, since a sentence cannot be the subject of another sentence, right? So maybe: paq Daje'pu'. QaQ wanI'vam. > You're on the right track. I'd probably use *wanI'* for this: *bIlaDtaH. > QaQ wanI'vam'e'.*/You are reading. THAT (and not something else) is > good./ But these are definitely two separate sentences in Klingon. And if I want to put emphasis, then I use "-'e'": paq Daje'pu'. QaQ wanI'vam'e'. But then I'm not sure if I understand the sentence in "Star Trek Discovery": tlhIngan maH. taHjaj. Isn't the subject of "taHjaj" the sentence "tlhIngan maH"? Something like: "It may endure, that we are Klingons", or "Our being Klingons may endure"? What is otherwise the subject of "taHjaj"? Shouldn't we use here some sort of noun, like in "paq Daje'pu'. QaQ wanI'vam." I'm probably missing something important, sorry!

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can I say "they obey the jurisdiction of their superiors" ?
by mayqel qunen'oS 29 Sep '20

29 Sep '20

DIvI' Hol 'oHbe'mo' HolwIj wa'DIch'e', jIjangnIS. mu'tlhegh veb vIqon: mochpu'chaj teblaw lulob they obey the jurisdiction of their superiors lugh'a' mu'tlheghvam ? ~ hjkhjkhjkhjh

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Klingon Word of the Day: SIbI'
by Klingon Word of the Day 29 Sep '20

29 Sep '20

Klingon Word of the Day for Tuesday, September 29, 2020 Klingon word: SIbI' Part of speech: adv Definition: immediately Source: ADD This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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jatlhpu' yuthura ban
by mayqel qunen'oS 29 Sep '20

29 Sep '20

"Without strife, the victory has no meaning. Without strife, one does not advance. Without strife, there is only stagnation." ~ Yuthura Ban ram yay, yayvam tlhejpu'be'chugh yol. qaSbe'taHvIS yol, Dubbe' nuv. qaSbe'taHvIS yol, tlhetlhbe'taH nuv. ~ yuthura ban lughchu', 'ej meq law'qu'mo' sith 'Ip luchIwchu' mu'vam. SoHvaD ngeDtaHchugh Hoch, not DuqaDchugh vay', not ghu'mey Qatlh DaDIghnISchugh, vaj vabDot tagha' bIQapchugh, nuq Dachavpu' ? ngoQmey ngeD neH chavqangchugh nuv, vaj nuchna' ghaH nuvvam'e'. ~ Qa'yIn

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