February 2020 - tlhIngan-Hol

pseudo-Klingon words from the paq'batlh
by De'vID 27 May '22

27 May '22

What do people think about the following Klingon "words" from paq'batlh? They don't appear in the main (Klingon-language) text, but are used in otherwise English sentences in the introduction or footnotes. xxii. {Huy'reH} "aria style" xxii, 62, 87. {cha'ang} "chorus style" xvii, xxii, xxxv. {Qich'lut} "narrator style" xix. {paq'jachchu} "Book of the Perfect Scream" {Huy'reH} and {cha'ang}, at least, seem to follow proper modern {tlhIngan Hol} phonology. {Qich'lut} has a lower-cased "i" and an out-of-place {qaghwI'}. {paq'jachchu} has that apostrophe after {paq} and a missing {qaghwI'} at the end (if the {jachchu} part is indeed the verb {jachchu'}, as the English translation seems to indicate). On p.xxx, it is explicitly stated that the name {paq'batlh} is in {no' Hol} and that the apostrophe may be a clue to some missing grammatical element. Of course, the book also has sections named {paq'yav}, {paq'raD}, and {paq'QIH}. So {paq'jachchu} is probably just spelled weirdly for the same reason. Should {Huy'reH} and {cha'ang} be accepted as canon Klingon words as-is? In other words, would you expect them in a new words list? (In particular, I am asking if they should be listed in {boQwI'}.) The word {Qich'lut} is spelled that way all three times it appears in the book. I notice that in previous discussions on this mailing list, 'IQqu' and Voragh have both spelled it as {QIch lut} (capital-I, no apostrophe, space between the two words). Should {QIch lut} be accepted as the "modern" spelling for the purpose of look-up in word lists? -- De'vID

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paq'batlh errata?
by De'vID 27 Aug '20

27 Aug '20

Did anyone ever put together a list of errata for the {paq'batlh}? I'm about to send off my own list to the publisher. But if anyone else has compiled a list, please let me know in case I missed something. -- De'vID

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pluralizing groups of beings capable of language
by mayqel qunen'oS 17 Aug '20

17 Aug '20

Just to make certain.. The way I understand it is, that when we pluralize a group of beings capable of language, then we use {-mey}. For example, we'll say {qorDu'mey} for "families", and not {qorDu'pu'}. Right ? ~ mayqel qunen'oS

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Pronouns for irregular plurals
by Hugh Son puqloD 16 Aug '20

16 Aug '20

As I understand it, irregular plurals like {cha}, {ngop}, {negh}, and {no'} are treated as grammatically singular. But does that extend to pronouns? The following sentences don’t bother me that much: {ngop wISay'moH} {Dulegh'a' negh?} {no' luqaw} {cha yIghuS!} But these seem downright weird: {nuqDaq 'oH ngop'e'?} {'Iv ghaH no'ra''e'?} {cha 'oH'a'?} {negh ghaHlaw'.} Do we have canonical evidence of pronouns used to stand in for irregular plural nouns?

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{neH} and {-bogh}ed nouns
by mayqel qunen'oS 05 Mar '20

05 Mar '20

This isn't something I'd actually do, but I'm asking to see if my understanding is correct. Suppose I write: {qama' qIppu'bogh neH yaS'e'} This can mean "the officer who has merely hit the prisoner", but it can also mean "the officer who has hit only the prisoner". Right ? Of course, we could just place the {neH} right after the {qama'} and eliminate the ambiguity.. But I'm just trying to understand how things work. ~ mayqel qunen'oS

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Klingon Word of the Day: tepqengwI'
by Klingon Word of the Day 04 Mar '20

04 Mar '20

Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, February 29, 2020 Klingon word: tepqengwI' Part of speech: noun Definition: cargo carrier, cargo lift Source: TKD (109 KE, 123 EK) This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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why we shouldn't do transcriptions
by Jesse Manoogian 02 Mar '20

02 Mar '20

On 2/27/2020 4:42 PM, SuStel wrote:> >There is Tolkien explicitly telling us to transliterate part of the word >and translate the other part. We're not even told what the /crick-/ >means. To render it in Klingon, we get *qrIqQemjIqHom.* Shouldn't that be "qIrIqQemjiqHom"?

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Klingon Word of the Day: peHghep
by Klingon Word of the Day 28 Feb '20

28 Feb '20

Klingon Word of the Day for Friday, February 28, 2020 Klingon word: peHghep Part of speech: noun Definition: Age of Inclusion Source: ADD This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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'eSrIv Soch
by Jackson Bradley 27 Feb '20

27 Feb '20

Hey y'all! It's that time again! The seventh issue of 'eSrIv is up! Below you'll find a link to the 'eSrIv page on Hol 'ampaS, generously maintained by Chris Lipscombe! Please enjoy your monthly dose of original Klingon-language literature! *'elaySa'* is the winner of March's comicstrip contest! po'qu'bej DIjmeH laHDaj net Sov! *pInaDqu' 'ej tuqlIj wInaDqu' je!* https://hol.kag.org/page/eSrIv.html -DeSDu'

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why we shouldn't do transcriptions
by Lieven L. Litaer 27 Feb '20

27 Feb '20

This is a topic that comes back over and over, and there are divided opinions: Some strictly say DON'T, others say Why not? Well, I just noticed a nice event that shows what can happen: (and even though I may mix up something, It's a good example) Step 1: Many years ago, somebody translated The Gospel of John into Klingon. While doing so, they decided to transcribe many names. One of them is "peter" which turned out to pe'tlhoS, probably based on Latin Petrus. Step 2: Somehow, this text was added to the database of Bing. The software started to learn and found out the word for "Peter" (which is actually nonsense, because it's a name that should not be translated, but that's another topic). Step 3: Some lazy workers at FOX studios uses Bing to translate a Klingon dialogue. And so, the Klingon version of "Peter" pops up in Family Guy! Step 4: If anyone who knows nothing about Klingon, Okrand, our group's conventions, or anything, tries to analyze that text - assuming they find out the corrected grammar - they will also find that pe'tlhoS is Klingon for "Peter". BUT IT'S NOT! So you see how one apparently minor insignificant decision can have large consequences many years later. That's why I still keep insisting that translators should avoid making transliterations and making up new words as much as possible. Just my 2 cents on this. I agree that we may disagree. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/StarTrekDiscovery

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