May 2022 - tlhIngan-Hol - lists.kli.org

New words from Hamletmachine
by Lieven L. Litaer 28 Dec '23

28 Dec '23

For the creation of the play {mu' mu' mu'} by the Dutch theatre company URLAND that premiered on 4th of March 2020, I was asked to translate a German play into Klingon, which was partially used in their play. The play "Die Hamletmaschine" by German author Heiner Müller was written in 1977, is internationally known and has been translated into several languages. During translation work, I got help from Marc Okrand who could discuss some useful information with Maltz. Due to some copyright situations, I cannot publish the translation right now, but I do not want to keep those words hidden until publication until then, so here we go. For a clearer and more "colorful" overview, see the page at the Klingon Language wiki: http://klingon.wiki/En/Hamletmachine Body parts: == Okrand quote == {nev'ob} refers to both the "thigh" and the "upper arm" (above the elbow). Similarly, {reStav} refers to both the "shin" and the "forearm." If it's necessary to make a distinction, precede these words with {'uS} or {DeS}. {cha'neH}, when used alone, means "forearm." But when preceded by {'uS}, it means "lower part of the leg." You could also say {DeS cha'neH} for "forearm," but this would probably be used only in a context where you were talking about both the forearm and the lower leg and wanted to clarify which was which. {reStav} is "shin," meaning the front of the lower leg. (I assume "Schienbein" is "shin bone." {reStav} is more than just the bone. The only way Maltz was aware of for referring to the bone is {reStav Hom}.) {Do'ghI'} is "calf," meaning the back of the lower leg ("Wade," presumably). == Okrand quote end == Clarifying "hang": == Okrand quote == {HuS} takes an object. If your shoes are hanging on a wall it's because somebody hung them there. {HuS} is not used to mean "lynch" or "execute by hanging." That's a different word: {jIb}. (Maltz thought maybe an early form of torture or execution was hanging people by their hair, but he wasn't totally sure about this and may have just been reacting to the homophony.) And there's another word: {tlhep} "be suspended, be dangling." Use {HuS} if, for example, you hang your coat on a hook on the wall or hang sheets on a clothesline to dry. But if, say, you see a spider dangling at the bottom of one of those silk threads that spiders extrude, use {tlhep}. Or if you see a pair of shoes tied together by the laces and, for whatever reason, they're hanging by the tied-together laces from an overhead power wire, use {tlhep}. == Okrand quote end == Okrand agreed that {jIb'egh} is "suicide by hanging". Next, there was a question about a "concubine": == Okrand quote == Maltz thought the best word for this might be {lIwnal}, though maybe not: the cultural connotations are a bit different since, in Klingon culture, everything associated with a {lIwnal} lacks honor, and this is not necessarily the case for a (Terran) king's concubines or courtesans. Note that only married people could have a partner who could be considered a {lIwnal}. Also, {lIwnal} could be male or female, so if it's necessary to distinguish, say {loD lIwnal} or {be' lIwnal}. == Okrand quote end == More words: {ghenlan} - Greenland (country) {qaw'} - flip over {qaw'moH} - flip over (i.e. "make something flip over") {rIv} - split {vIrgh} - rip (up), slash, tear (up), gash {'o'nI'} - foam, froth Not new words, but combined translations: {DeSwar bIr} - refrigerator {jorchan velqa'} - stage decoration {much jech} - costume {much yaH} - stage {qab jech} - mask Transliterations: {qo'qa' qo'la'} - Coca Cola {lIyenIn} - Lenin {maw} - Mao The question for a "stage" was answered with a general statement: == Okrand quote == Any place specifically designated for the performance of a specific task (or tasks) is a {yaH}. A stage is the {yaH} for the performance of plays or, perhaps, music. A football field is the {yaH} for a football game. A laboratory is a scientist's {yaH}. And, of course, on a ship, a {yaH} is a duty station. If context isn't enough to clarify what sort of {yaH} it is, you can say things like {much yaH}, {QoQ yaH}, {tamlerQeD yaH}, etc. == Okrand quote end == There's an idiom for "kill time": {'ebmey jonHa'} Talking about a "virgin", Okrand suggested saying it literally what a virgin is: {pagh ngaghpu'bogh be'} or {not vay' ngaghpu'bogh be'} Doing so, he answered the question if {ngagh} can be used with people. And in case anyone wondered, {jach} is a good verb to describe what a {jajlo' Qa'} does. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://klingon.wiki/En/Hamletmachine

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Maus-words: News from Okrand
by Lieven L. Litaer 13 Mar '23

13 Mar '23

TL;DR: one new word {valqe'} "bat (animal)" Hello my friends, today is the 50-anniversary of a German children sho named "Die Sendung mit der Maus" (i.e. "the show with the mouse"). The topic of this episode was a view into the future, so it was obvious to make a Klingon introduction, of which I am very proud to provide it to them. You can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRgryUjxWes --------------------------------------------- Not only the TV show, also the podcast version of the entire week needed Klingon introductions, and those caused some problems which were answered by Maltz as follows: Quoted lines are my questions, lines starting with >>> are Okrand's words. --------------------------------------------- > leap year > - A year in which February has 29 days. 2020 was a "leap year". >>> Make use of the phrase {bur DIS}, as in, for example {qatlh bur 'op DISmey?} > bat > - small animal that can fly but is not a bird, looks quite creepy and > can see in the dark due to his sonar voice; sleeps hanging upside down, usually found in caves. >>> The closest Qo'noS equivalent is a flying beast called a {valqe'}. You can decide whether you want to say {tera' valqe'} for purposes of the TV show. > hibernate, overwinter > - what many animals do during the winter; a bear can hibernate. Also > the bats we talk above. They hide in caves and sleep there for a very > long time. [Added information: with bats, and where they overwinter, > (so the word is more about "winter" than "sleep")] >>> Maltz didn't know of any special way to say "overwinter." He said to just say something like {qaStaHvIS qImroq bIrqu', nuqDaq Qong valqe'mey?} if that covers what they're driving at. > material > - There is the word {Hap} "matter" that appears in many materials > (e.g. {Sor Hap} "wood"), but can it be used as "material"? Can I say > {Hapmey} for "several materials"? >>> {Hap} (without {-mey}) should work. > the future > - When I say a phrase like "In the future, nobody will be poor", may I > add {-Daq} to {tuch}? {tuchDaq mamIp}?? Or must it be something like > {qaSDI' tuch}? >>> {qaSDI' tuch} should work. > Can I say {to'waQ wIyIv} for "chewing gum"? >>> There is an idiomatic expression {to'waQ yIv} that means to take some time to consider a matter, but its meaning comes from the fact that {to'waQ} takes a relatively long time to chew (before swallowing), compared to other things you might be chewing, like muscle. It does not follow from this that Klingons chew {to'waQ} for pleasure, just because the flavor lingers longer or because it works off nervous energy. Maybe {req} would be better than {to'waQ} since, if you were to chew {req}, you'd probably be doing it just for the purpose of chewing (and whatever pleasure or benefit that may bring in and of itself), unlike {to'waQ}, which you'd be chewing for the purpose of grinding it up so you could finally swallow it. ------------------------------------- This will be archived at https://qephom.de/e/message_from_maltz.html -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/En/DieSendungMitDerMaus

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paq'batlh 2ed
by De'vID 04 Aug '22

04 Aug '22

Hi, For those of you who've been asking, the paq'batlh 2nd edition is almost ready to go to publication. I'm hoping that it will be out in June. I just sent a very-close-to-final-draft to the editors, but there's like one or two things that Dr. Okrand and I are still discussing. He's promised to get back to me within a few days, and then it should be ready to be published. (I hope I don't jinx it by posting about it.) -- De'vID

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] thoughts on the perfective {-pu'}
by luis.chaparro＠web.de 17 Jul '22

17 Jul '22

Dana'an: > Yes, you're right. And unfortunately, as much as I try to get things right, > in the end I get confused. I don't know much about Modern Greek, but I think you distinguish between imperfective and perfective in the past with παρατατικός (imperfective) and αόριστος (perfective). I'm sure that's not the same as in Klingon, but for me the difference between imperfective and perfective in Spanish has been a great help, and I just try to keep a note of the cases where it doesn't match the Klingon. Doesn't it work with Modern Greek?

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moon ph(r)ases, new adverbial {loQHa'}
by De'vID 02 Jun '22

02 Jun '22

(p. 181, line 31) {chu'DI' maS 'ej qaStaHvIS ram} "On the night of the new moon" De'vID: Not even every Terran language refers to the first lunar phase (opposite of a "full" moon) as a "new" moon. The issue here is whether this isn't an Anglicism/Terranism, or if Klingons also say the moon is “new". MO: >>> {chu’DI’ maS}, of course, means “when the moon is/was new” (not “the new moon”), but your point is a good one. Klingons would probably refer to the new moon in the same way they refer to other phases of the moon. “Full moon” {maS’e’ So’bogh pagh} is “moon that nothing hides.” “Crescent moon” (pp. 138-139 of paq’batlh) is {maS’e’ loQ So’be’bogh QIb} “moon that a shadow doesn’t slightly hide,” that is, the shadow hides most of the moon, but not all of it. What these have in common is the idea that the moon is fully or partially or not at all hidden. What’s doing/causing the hiding is of less importance. So while using {QIb} when describing phases of the moon is perfectly fine and not at all uncommon, it is not necessary. Another way of referring to a “crescent moon” is {maS loQHa’ So’lu’bogh} “moon that is considerably/appreciably hidden.” And {maS loQ So’lu’bogh} “moon that is slightly hidden” refers to a mostly full moon. Now, back to “new moon.” It follows the same pattern: {maS So’lu’chu’bogh} “moon that is perfectly hidden.” These moon phrases [sic] are descriptions. They’re commonly used, but they’re not frozen forms. So they can be manipulated grammatically. For line 31, p. 181, the idea is it’s the night when the new moon is happening (if a new moon can be said to happen), thus: {qaStaHvIS ram, maS So’lu’chu’DI’} “while the night was occuring, when the moon was perfectly hidden” or, in more natural English, “at night when the moon was new.” (end of message) Note the new adverbial {loQHa'} "considerably, appreciably". -- De'vID

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Klingon Word of the Day: lo'laHbe'
by Klingon Word of the Day 01 Jun '22

01 Jun '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Tuesday, May 31, 2022 Klingon word: lo'laHbe' Part of speech: verb Definition: be worthless Source: TKD This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Klingon Word of the Day: 'an'ortej
by Klingon Word of the Day 01 Jun '22

01 Jun '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, May 28, 2022 Klingon word: 'an'ortej Part of speech: noun Definition: paleontologist Source: qepHom 2019 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Klingon Word of the Day: taQbang
by Klingon Word of the Day 31 May '22

31 May '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Monday, May 30, 2022 Klingon word: taQbang Part of speech: noun Definition: exhaust Source: TKD (109 KE, 131 EK) This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Klingon Word of the Day: jaS
by Klingon Word of the Day 31 May '22

31 May '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Sunday, May 29, 2022 Klingon word: jaS Part of speech: adv Definition: differently Source: TKD-A (182 KE, 187 EK) This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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new word {pal'ar} "kinsperson, family member"
by De'vID 28 May '22

28 May '22

In the first edition of the paq'batlh, the word {qorDu'} was used in some places to translate "kin", including sometimes using the suffixes {-wI'} and {-lI'}. Dr. Okrand confirmed that this is an error as (normally) a family is not a being capable of language. However, its members might be, for which he provided a new word. (I'd posted an earlier conservation I had with Dr. Okrand about some of this back in March, in a post with the subject "inherently plural nouns and collection nouns for groups of people (in the paq'batlh)".) The following was in response to my observation that "kin" wasn't translated consistently throughout the paq'batlh (in an intermediate draft of the 2nd edition). I've edited his message slightly to add context (his original message only had the page and line numbers and not the quotations) and remove some comments not relevant to the topic of this message, with my edits in [brackets]. MO: >>> I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the word “kin” in the English translations is, except for once, not used for family in general or family as a unit, but rather to refer to one person (Kahless’s brother or father) or sometimes two (brother and father) or maybe more — that is, it’s equivalent to “kinsperson” (if that’s a good English word) or “kinspersons.” When “kin” is referring to family in general or the family as a unit (not a collection of individuals), {qorDu’} is definitely correct. But {qorDu’} doesn’t seem right when referring to one or a number of family members. A better word for that is {pal’ar}. More specifically: [(p. 61, line 12) {batlh Hegh qorDu'lI'} "your kin will die with honor"] Change {qorDu’lIj} to {pal’arpu’lI’}. The idea is that a bunch of family members will die, not that the family will no longer exist. (It’s also odd for a “family” — distinct from the members of a family — to die.) [(p. 63, line 13) {qorDu'Daj lon} "He leaves his kin"] Same deal. Morath is going away from where his family members are, so change {qorDu’Daj} to {pal’arpu’Daj). [(p. 71, line 2) {ghobchuq vavwI' loDnI' je} "battle between my kin"] Here English “my kin” (p. 70) is specific in Klingon ({vavwI’ loDnI’ je}. A {-wI’} seems to be missing after {loDnI’}, but rather than stick in that {-wI’}, we should change the phrase to {pal’arpu’wI’} to match the English. [(p. 87, line 14) {qorDu'wI' vIQan} "I will save my kin"] Change {qorDu’wIj} to {pal’arpu’wI’}. Here again “kin” means specifically Kahless’s father and brother. [(p. 107, line 5) {qeylIS qorDu' je} "Kahless and his kin"] Change {qorDu’} to {pal’arpu’Daj}. [snip] “kin” in this passage is referring only to Kanjit and Morath. [(p. 183, line 3) {qorDu'wIj vImuv} "to be with my kin"] Change {qorDu’wIj} to {pal’arpu’wI’}. (Same comment as for p. 107 [referring to the fact that "kin" refers to Kanjit and Morath].) [(p. 191, line 33) {qeylIS qorDu' je} "with his kin"] Change {qorDu’} to {pal’arpu’Daj}. [(p. 195, line 1) {vavlI' loDnI'lI' je DaSammeH} "in search of your kin"] Which brings us to p. 195, which was what prompted the question in the first place. I think, for consistency, it would be good to change {vavlI’ loDnI’lI’ je} to {pal’arpu’lI’}. {qorDu’} on p. 145 is used in the phrase “family honor,” which is fine. No reference to individual family members. (end of message) -- De'vID

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