November 2021 - tlhIngan-Hol

Klingon Word of the Day: yIn
by Klingon Word of the Day 29 Nov '21

29 Nov '21

Klingon Word of the Day for Monday, November 29, 2021 Klingon word: yIn Part of speech: verb Definition: live Source: TKD (114 KE, 140 EK) This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Klingon food vocabulary
by James Landau 28 Nov '21

28 Nov '21

>From: "Lieven L. Litaer" <levinius(a)gmx.de>>Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Klingon food vocabulary>>Yes, it's true that I rearranged the page a little, and removed the>animal words, because it made the list too long creating double entries >with the page "animals". Since you explained after editing that animal words were not being included because the Klingons considered all non-sapient animal species to be food, I understood that. It was just the fruit words. (I never knew that a Klingon would consider any animal to be food!) >Removing the cherry was not intentional. While I was editing, I got an >error message, so some of my changes were not saved. I will add them >later, or you can. As you find the time. I didn't know about the error message you got, so thanks for explaining. I see most of the fruit words were returned, although you seem to have forgotten two fruits from the last qep'a': *raS'IS moQ nah* and *qaq naH*. I've added both words back in. Now, though, we have a new problem. The header is "Fruit and vegetables", but we have some TalkNow words, like cola and pizza, that aren't fruit and vegetables. (Also paSta'/pasta in the final section of "Terran fruit and vegetables".) I really don't know what to do with these words. I'll have to think about it awhile.

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] expressing baby animals
by mayqel qunen'oS 28 Nov '21

28 Nov '21

SuStel: > In English, the hyphen used this way > represents a genitive relationship. hmm.. This confuses me. I thought of writing {vIghro'-ghu} influenced from the "romulan hunter-killer probe". The way I understood the dash at the "romulan hunter-killer probe", is "a probe which is a hunter and a killer". So I thought of writing {vIghro'-ghu} meaning "a creature which is a cat and a baby". -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ

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expressing baby animals
by mayqel qunen'oS 28 Nov '21

28 Nov '21

I remember having talked about this in the past without reaching a conclusion. Anyways, I just decided that until we get a Ca'Non way to express this (yeah right, as if that's ever gonna happen..) I'll be using {Ha'DIbaH-ghu} like this: {vIghro'-ghu} for "kitten" {ngavyaw'-ghu} for "puppy" {bo'Degh-ghu} for whatever the hell you call baby birds in english. Of course one could ask "but why don't say the opposite? i.e. {ghu-vIghro'}?". I thought of this possibility, and to be honest I can't feel much of a difference between a "cat baby" and a "baby cat", but perhaps being influenced from the Ca'Non {DI'raq loD}/{DI'raq be'}, which perhaps have nothing to do with the matter at hand, I prefer the {vIghro'-ghu} more. Let alone that the {vIghro'-ghu} is closer to the "baby of the cat" meaning. True, I could write just {vIghro' ghu} but I like the dash variety better. Of course, in a couple of months, I may have forgotten what I wrote today and write {ghu-vIghro'}. Or {vIghro' ghu}. Go figure. And yes, I know that perhaps klingon doesn't do dashes between words, but as you well know I don't give a crap. I couldn't care less. No, seriously, if I cared any less I could die. Just wanted to let you know. -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ

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one of the earliest sentences translated into Klingon
by De'vID 27 Nov '21

27 Nov '21

I was chatting with Lieven and it came up that I'm apparently in possession of a piece of Klingon language folklore which hasn't been documented anywhere that I could find. So I'm going to post it here for posterity. Years ago, Marc Okrand told me that when he was working on Star Trek III, before he got the final script with the lines he was supposed to translate into Klingon, he picked a number of lines from TOS episodes mostly involving Klingons, to have examples of the sorts of things he might be expected to translate. While working on developing the language, he translated these lines into Klingon to test out his ideas. (Since he likes to tell the same stories over and over again, maybe there's a recording of him telling this story.) He didn't explicitly say which lines, but he provided enough information for me to work out one of them, namely the following line from "Friday's Child": "The rare mineral topaline, vital to the life-support system of planetoid colonies, has been discovered in abundance here." You'll notice that every single word needed to translate this sentence is in TKD ("no bloody A..."), and in particular, the word {toplIn} appears in no other TOS episode. Furthermore, the word {mIDmey} survived the process of writing TKD to become the example for the plural suffix {-mey}. The word {yuQHom} also shows that {-Hom} already existed as a suffix, and although {rojHom} replaced it as the example in the body of TKD, it is found in the word lists in the back. (Since we know that {-pu'} was invented to retrofit the line {qama'pu' jonta' neH}, {-mey} was the only plural suffix at this point in Klingon's development. I also think it's fairly likely that once he was forced to make a plural suffix for beings, he decided to add one for body parts as a joke, as there was no reason for him to do so, unlike with beings.) Does anyone want to take a shot at reconstructing the Klingon version of this line, using words only found in TKD 1st edition (i.e., no Addendum)? (Since Klingon grammar and vocabulary was changed by the filming of Star Trek III, it's possible that the reconstruction won't be the same as the proto-Klingon version Okrand would've written, but I think the changes to Klingon don't affect the translation of this sentence and we can actually reconstruct the original, or something very close to it.) Once again: "The rare mineral topaline, vital to the life-support system of planetoid colonies, has been discovered in abundance here." -- De'vID

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{‘e’ qa’} revisited
by Will Martin 27 Nov '21

27 Nov '21

The idiom {‘e’ qa’} obviously exists to extend {[noun] qa’ [noun]} to be able to also allow {[sentence]; [sentence] ‘e’ qa’}. I’m not arguing against the use of it as I portray some kind of huffy pseudo-authoritarian whose sensitivities are violated. My lip doesn’t curl. My hackles aren’t upraised. I’m just mildly confused and amused as to why it is so important to get really good at using an idiom that appears to be wholly unnecessary, while it is awkward to get right, especially if it is even mildly extended in complexity. I awoke this morning wondering why bother with this awkward grammatical exceptionalism for one verb when pretty much everything that can be stated through the idiom can more simply be stated through more conventional grammar. We’ve gone back and forth over exactly how to use the idiom to say, “If we use phasers instead of swords, we win,” for instance. {yaD DIlo’chugh maluj, ‘ach pu’ DIlo’chugh maQap.} Alternatively, {yaD DIlo’be’chugh ‘ach pu’ DIlo’chugh, vaj maQap.} To cut down on redundancy, it could be {yaD qa’bogh pu’’e’ wI’o’chugh, maQap}, making the assumption that we can translate “phasers which replace swords” as “phasers instead of swords” given the way we translate the idiom for whole sentences as “X instead of Y” instead of the more literal “Y; X replaces that.” It’s pretty clear that the {‘e’ qa’} version presented on this list doesn’t exist in order to express anything in particular. It exists in order to figure out how to use the idiom. In most cases {[negative sentence] ‘ach [sentence]} covers it without using the language’s only approved example of Sentence As Subject. So, why use the idiom? I can only imagine that one wants an expert grasp over the idiom as a matter of style. And that’s the part that makes me most curious. Really? You really want to develop well honed skill at the use of a combination of words in Klingon that any Klingon speaker who has not participated in this specific discussion or who has forgotten the discussion will probably find more confusing than any of several simpler alternatives? As a matter of style? Okay. Whatever floats your boat. Just don’t wag your finger too hard at anyone who responds {nuqjatlh?} Their failure to remember the idiom (or to have ever even heard of it) is not remarkably unreasonable.

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human
by mayqel qunen'oS 27 Nov '21

27 Nov '21

Man: one who thinks of what he sees. Plato, Ancient Greek philosopher Human: DI'ruj luleghbogh mInDaj buSbogh vay'. (𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘰, 'elaDya' tIQ vIt nejwI') -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ

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I've missed you so much.. maybe I can come in..
by mayqel qunen'oS 26 Nov '21

26 Nov '21

trailer of the series "from" I've missed you so much.. maybe I can come in.. bIDachpu'mo', jI'IQqu'choHpu'.. chaq jI'ellaH.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgYmkpkzSmQ If you don't like scary stuff don't watch it ghIjchoHmoHbogh vay' Daparchugh, muchHomvam yIbejQo' -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ

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'eSpanya' QISmaS (Beginner's text and questions)
by luis.chaparro＠web.de 26 Nov '21

26 Nov '21

tugh qaS QISmaS. jar wa'maH cha' rav jaj javDIch 'aqroS jaj chorghDIch 'eSpanya''e' motlh juH lu'IHqu'choHmoHlu'. QISmaS Sor DIghaj, 'ach 'eSpanya' lurDech bIHbe'. *Bethlehem* velqa'mey nu' 'oH lurDechmaj'e'. pIj vIqraqna' bIH 'ej tInqu'. velqa'vam nu' ghaj je 'op DIvI', malja', chIrgh je 'ej SuchlaH nuvpu'. jaj cha'maH loSDIch, jaj wejmaH wa'DIch je nItebHa' Sop qorDu'mey, 'eybogh 'eSpanya' Soj vItlh luSop. jaj wejmaH wa'DIch pagh rep wa'maH cha' ghIrep naH DISop je, baS 'In DIQoy'taHvIS. nob Hevba' puqpu'ma', 'ach qembe' *Santa Claus*. qem wej ta' chul. wa' ta' wIv Hoch puq. jar wa' jaj vaghDIch Hoch vengDaq puqpu'vaD boghoy Dun tu'lu'. qaStaHvIS jajvetlh ram, QongtaHvIS puqpu', nob qem ta'pu'. As always, I would appreciate any help / correction in order to improve my Klingon. I also have some questions: 1. I've discussed in another thread the difference between *'eSpanya' QISmaS* and *'eSpanya'ngan QISmaS*. If I've understood it well, I think I could use both here with a similar meaning, but I've chosen *'eSpanya' QISmaS* because I wanted to present the traditions in the context of the country's culture, rather than focusing on the people. Was it right? 2. I wanted to use *'eSpanya''e'* as topic, but then I couldn't decide where I should place it. It's a noun with a Type 5 suffix. Time expressions come first. So I placed it after the time expression. However, my tendency was to say it at the beginning, before the time expression. Would that be right / possible? 3. In */Bethlehem/ velqa'mey nu' 'oH lurDechmaj'e'*, I've decided to use *'oH* since the idea is *As for our tradition, IT (the tradition) = miniatures of Bethlehem*, but I'm not sure about it. 4. Can we use *Such* with the meaning *to visit the miniatures*? Maybe *bej* would be better? 5. Am I telling dates / time correctly? I don't feel very confident with this. When should we tell time as hundreds? 6. Is it possible to say something like *jar wa' jaj vaghDIch ram* for *the night of January 5th*?

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] the measure of all things
by luis.chaparro＠web.de 26 Nov '21

26 Nov '21

Dana'an: > Man is the measure of all things. > (Protagoras, ancient Greek philosopher) > Human potlh law' Hoch potlh puS. (𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘢𝘨𝘰𝘳𝘢𝘴, 'elaDya' tIQ vIt > nejwI') Just a comment on Protagoras' philosophy. The sentence is (believed to be) an example of relativism, i.e., the philosophical theory maintaining that there is no objective truth. While it is probably not so radical as Plato discusses it in his work, it seems to imply that, at least speaking of thoughts, feelings and things created by humans (such as politics, culture, morals etc.), there is not only one truth for all of us, but rather a truth for every culture / society, for every period of time and, to some extent, for every person. So, maybe *Humans are the most important thing* doesn't render this part dealing with the theory of knowledge. It's only a suggestion, I hope it can be somehow useful.

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