February 2019 - tlhIngan-Hol

Klingon game on Discovery
by Lieven L. Litaer 13 Feb '19

13 Feb '19

A few days ago, Star Trek Discovery Designer Tamara Deverell has shared some drawings of the Klingon game tISang and also for the used currency. So if anyone needs a new task for their 3D-printer, here we go. https://twitter.com/OntarioDGC/status/1093994981168160768 Few information on the words can be found in the Wiki, but that needs some more input: http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/TISang -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de

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L'Rell's treaty [minor SPOILERS included]
by Lieven L. Litaer 13 Feb '19

13 Feb '19

I have just deciphered L'Rell's treaty she was forced to sign in episode 2.03 of DSC. Some of the letters were very hard to read, others almost entirely covered. You may go to the Klingon wiki if you like to make corrections on it. See: http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/DSC203 Here's what I could make of it: 1 qaStaHvIS During 2 [moHDu']wIj 'ej my [...] and 3 [mot]taHvIS yaQwIj, while my [yaQ?] [...] 4 QInvam vIqonlI' jIH , I am writing this message, 5 mo'qay tuq lIr'el . L'Rell from the house of Mokai. 6 qeylIS Say' vItoy'meH In oder to serve the clean Kahless 7 DaH quS'a' SeQvo' now from the formal chair 8 mu[ghe]' Qu'wIj. my task [...] me. 9 ghItlhvammo' Due to this manuscript 10 jIche'Ha'choHchu'qu' I step back entirely from my governing 11 vaj gheS qor tuq so the duty can be taken over by the house of Kor's 12 ghubDaQ qol. firstborn Kol. 13 meQchoHta' tIquvma T'Kuvma has burned (?) 14 lumeQnISmoHtaH they must carry on burning him (?) 15 Dat tlhInganpu' . Klingons of everywhere. 16 DaH Sech vInob . I now give the torch. 17 qI'meH 'Iw lo'lu' , Blood is used to sign, 18 [lIr'el] mo'qay, [L'rell] Mokai, 19 [xxxx]'a' ?? -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de

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charghwI’, vaghnarI’ngan
by Will Martin 12 Feb '19

12 Feb '19

bombe’chugh be’’a’ pI’, rInbe’. Sent from my iPad

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Is {Sal} a verb of movement ?
by mayqel qunenoS 12 Feb '19

12 Feb '19

This came up while I was writing another message earlier today.. Is {Sal} (v) "ascend", to be treated as the verbs of movement ? If I'm on earth and begin ascending to the sky, what do I say ? {chal vIlSal} or {chalDaq jISal} ? ~ mayqel *I love maltz* qunen'oS

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How are these two different ?
by mayqel qunenoS 12 Feb '19

12 Feb '19

I want to say "In order that you help me, you expect that I beg you". Option number one: {muQaHmeH qaqoy', 'e' DapIH} Option number two: {qaqoy', muQaHmeH 'e' DapIH} Is there any significant difference between the two ? Should I choose one over the other for some reason ? ~ mayqel *I love maltz* qunen'oS

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Context of {bang}
by mayqel qunenoS 12 Feb '19

12 Feb '19

We have the noun {bang} "love, one who is loved". So, it means two things: "the love" (noun), and "the person who is loved" (as in "you are my love"). As far as the noun "the love" is concerned, what kind of "love" is it ? Romantic ? Sexual ? "Innocent" as in between parents and children ? Or all of the above ? ~ mayqel *I love maltz* qunen'oS

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Klingon Word of the Day: qal
by Klingon Word of the Day 12 Feb '19

12 Feb '19

Klingon Word of the Day for Tuesday, February 12, 2019 Klingon word: qal Part of speech: verb Definition: be corrupt Source: TKD This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Is there a maximum number of suffixes an adjective can have ?
by mayqel qunenoS 12 Feb '19

12 Feb '19

Is there a maximum number of suffixes an adjective can have ? Can we say {veng tInqu'Daq} "at the very big city" ? or {veng tInqu'be'Daq} "at the not very big city" ? ~ mayqel *I love maltz* qunen'oS

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So, said darth vader..
by mayqel qunenoS 11 Feb '19

11 Feb '19

jIQochbe'; Doghqu' ok; this is ridiculous jImevnISba'; I need to stop; 'a jImevQo'.. but I won't.. Sor bIngDaq ba'taHvIS darth vader ghojwI'pu'Daj je, chal bejchoH darth vader 'ej jatlhchoH: while darth vader and his disciples were sitting below a tree, darth vader looked at the sky and said: tugh, mustafaDaq vIjaH; pa' vImeQlu'mo' jIbech, 'ej ghIq jIHegh. soon, I will go to mustafar where burning I will suffer and die. 'ach Su'IQchoHQo', ghojwi'pu'lI' but don't be sad my disciples qaStaHvIS wej jaj jIHegh, a ghIq muyInqa'moH darth sidious, vaj jIcheghqa' three days I will be dead, but then darth sidious will resurrect me, so I will rise again 'ej chalDaq jISal, vaj pa', Hegh HovDaq, HarwI'pu'wI' vIlup, 'ej pa' mayIntaH and at the sky I will ascend, so there, at the death star, my faithful ones I will carry, where we will live forever ~ mayqel *I love maltz* qunen'oS

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] ordering and scope of adverbials relative totimestamps
by Will Martin 11 Feb '19

11 Feb '19

If telling people that their style deserves to be cramped is your style, perhaps your style deserves to be cramped. We are a community of people with varying styles and opinions that all deserve to be heard. Here in the real world, there’s a Constitution that suggests that we have a right to free speech. I don’t remember signing that away when I joined this list. For the record, I’m not interested in telling you to shut up, though it does wear on me a bit to get the sense that you’d deeply enjoy any opportunity to tell me that. I’m glad you are here. You are very skilled at this language, and your posts assisting new people here are often very insightful and helpful to them. I’m not telling you that you can’t translate “Almost a year ago”. Go for it. Show us your solution to this problem instead of repeatedly telling me that I shouldn’t be saying that the language is not well equipped to translate it, and perhaps there’s an intentional reason for that based on something intentional by the language’s creator. The language has a mix of fictional and real world origins to its features. It’s handling of “to be” had less to do with the fictional culture than that the linguist thought it would be interesting. The gender classifications came out of a weird movie editing of a line assigning a whole new subtitle to a filmed scene. The suffix system was created to make a small vocabulary go a long way. The OVS word order was intended to make the language as alien as possible, being the least common word order among the human languages that the linguist was familiar with. Perhaps this fundamental lack of grammatical and vocabulary tools to indicate an approximate time period was an accidental omission for Okrand, but given the line which Okrand either wrote or collaborated on, “A Klingon may be inaccurate, but he is never approximate,” I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that it was intentional, and based on Okrand’s take on the cultural character of the Klingons. If nothing else, it gives him an excuse for not addressing the issue. There have been several references to Klingons’ preference for direct speech, without vague, floral niceties that humans are so drawn to include. In our own culture, it is often said that younger people like to text instead of call because they don’t want to waste all that time saying, “Hi, this is George. How are you? I’m fine. Sandy says the new Smurf movie is out and she’s interested. Would you like to come along?” Instead, they text: “Smurf movie: U wanna come?” Maybe this is like that. In English, we feel anxiety about suggesting a specific measurement unless we know for a fact that the measurement is accurate. We have a rich set of vague descriptors that can encompass different vague ranges. We choose the one that fits the vague range that includes the actual value. We are averse to being inaccurate the way that the stereotypical Brit or Japanese person is averse to being embarrassed. Part of the appeal to the Klingon language for me is the way it makes me aware of characteristics of English that I would not have otherwise noticed. Without this “almost a year” problem, I would have understood this detail about English less. It’s not just “the way things are in language”. It’s “the way things are in English”. We’ve got enough evidence to suggest that Klingons perceive this as indecisive and weak, or evasive and suspicious. Klingons are bold. Humans and Klingons alike will give you an exact number if they know the exact number, but a human will give a vague term if they don’t know the exact number, while a Klingon will decisively pick a number that is close enough and be done with it. No anxiety. And if you disagree on the number, then we can fight about it, because, hey, we like fighting. This is as good an excuse as any. Klingons are not averse to conflict. They enjoy it. Given all this, it’s no surprise that there is no simple way to encode the words, “almost a year” into an equivalent Klingon phrase, even if we humans really wish we could. We can express the thought, filtered through Klingon culture, grammar and vocabulary, but we can’t turn the words “almost a year” into a similar collection of Klingon words that can be dropped into any Klingon sentence to replace “almost a year” in any English sentence we’d like to translate into Klingon. Wishing otherwise won’t help. And if you are really offended by trying to figure out why this seems to be the case, well, enjoy being offended. It happens often enough that you do seem to get something out of it. It would be great if we could discuss stuff without the vitriol, but perhaps it’s more Klingon-like to get into each other’s face. Either way, I’m still here. And so are you. We might as well get used to it. charghwI’ ‘utlh Sent from my iPad > On Feb 9, 2019, at 11:34 PM, SuStel <sustel(a)trimboli.name> wrote: > > If telling people that they’re vague, wittering, and indecisive is your style, it probably deserves to be cramped. > > > > You still haven’t told us the source of the cultural rules you’re citing. Where do we find all this about being precise to represent a ballpark? How did it come to be incorporated into the structure of the language presented in TKD? > > > > -- > SuStel > http://trimboli.name

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