September 2017 - tlhIngan-Hol

To punish and enslave
by mayqel qunenoS 02 Sep '17

02 Sep '17

SomDajDaq mu'mey puS cha' decepticon barricade; {bIjmeH 'ej toy'wI''a'pu' mojmoHmeH} bIH mu'mey'vam'e'. decepticons law'qu' tu'lu'; 'a tlhoy naHmo' barricade 'ej tlhoy vIDmo', barricade 'IH law' Hoch decepticon puH Duj 'IH puS. qo' HochDaq wa' puH Duj neH vIwIvnIS net jalchugh vaj barricade vIwIvbej. 'ej jIwuqmeH lup puSqu' vIlo'nIS. qunnoq

1 0

Statue of liberty
by mayqel qunenoS 01 Sep '17

01 Sep '17

Always, when I read the words of the statue of liberty, I get goosebumps. These words breathe defiance, these words breathe the need for freedom.. 'elaDya' jey' Sorpuq tInqu'wI''a' noy vIrurbe'; wa' Sepvo' latlh SepDaq Hoch luchargh tInqu'wI''a'vam ghIv, 'a tInqu'wI''a'vam vIrurbe'bej. Not like the brazen giant of greek fame, with conquering limbs astride from land to land naDev, tlhom chum lojmItmey''a'maj'e' qIptaHbogh bIQ'a' tu'lu', 'ej naDev, DaH, reH, Qam be' Dunqu'. Sech 'uch be'vam, pe'bIl jonlu'ta'bogh 'oH Sechvam qul'e'; 'ej ghImwI'pu' SoS 'oH pongDaj'e'. Here, at our sea-washed sunset gates shall stand a mighty woman with a torch, whose flame is the imprisoned lightning, and her name mother of exiles. vanmeH 'ej naDev lajmeH, Sech 'uchbogh ghopDajvo' wew mu'mey; bIQ'a' Duj vergh luDech cha' veng, 'ej verghvam'e' velchu'bogh rewve' lura' mInDu'Daj ghanHa'. >From her beacon-hand glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command the air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. 'o Sepmey tIQ, tlhIHvaD neH qunraj ngay' yIpol ! jach wuSDu'Daj tam.. Keep ancient lands your storied pomp ! cried she with silent lips.. Doy'wI'pu'ra', mIpbe'wI'pu'ra', tlhabchu'choH neHbogh Dojmeyra' 'It, bIQ'a' HeHmeyraj lulIghpu''e' ghom'a' bolajQo'bogh.. jIHvaD tInob ! Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. pagh juH ghajwI'pu', pagh HuDyar ghajwI'pu', 'ItwI'pu''e' Qaw'chu'bogh San, jIHDaq tIngeH ! qol'om lojmIt retlhDaq SechwIj vIpep ! Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door ! qunnoq

2 3

law' and 'Iq
by mayqel qunenoS 01 Sep '17

01 Sep '17

We know we can say {'ul law'} for "a great amount of electricity"; but can we say too {'ul 'Iq} for "too much electricity" ? Other than that, is there any other considerable difference between {law'} and {'Iq} ? That is a difference besides the level of "how much", expressed by each. For example, is the {'Iq} only to be used in cases where we want to express something negative ? For example {jagh 'Iq}, or can it be used too in order to refer to something positive, for example {batlh 'Iq} ? qunnoq

4 3

Re: [tlhIngan Hol] With "joq" - how do we choose the right verb prefix ?
by demonchaux.aurelie 01 Sep '17

01 Sep '17

Thank you all for your replies and thoughts on this ! HIq qIj reghuluS 'Iw HIq ghap jab They serve Black Ale or Regulan bloodwine. (CK) {A B ghap jab} “they serve them” not {lujab} “they serve it” This is a great example, and I think this gives us the solution, thank you for digging it up! I was convinced that if A and B were both singular, "A B ghap" would be considered singular when choosing the verb prefix, and that's why I thought joq might be singular in those cases, and I couldnt choose between singular or plural. But this proves the contrary ! So, to sum up, whether A and B are singular or plural, and whether we use je or ghap, A + B + je / ghap is always plural. Logically, A + B + joq is thus also always plural ! So the correct sentence in my example is: vIraS Hol tlhIngan Hol joq DIghojnIS tuQaHmo' Satlho' :) Aurélie Envoyé depuis mon smartphone Samsung Galaxy. -------- Message d'origine --------De : Steven Boozer <sboozer(a)uchicago.edu> Date : 31/08/2017 20:08 (GMT+01:00) À : tlhingan-hol(a)kli.org Objet : Re: [tlhIngan Hol] With "joq" - how do we choose the right verb prefix ? I searched my notes for examples of the conjunctions {joq} and {ghap} in a complete sentences… joq or, and/or (noun conj): ta'meyDaj boqawDI' SuHemjaj mu'meyDaj bojatlhDI' Suvaljaj not ta'meyDaj mu'meyDaj joq bolIjjaj May you remember his deeds with pride, May you recite his words with wisdom, May they forever be unforgettable. (PB) Unfortunately the prefix {bo-} means “you (pl.) [do something to] him/her/it/them” so this is inconclusive. {joq} was once apparently omitted/implied in SkyBox S21: qagh, ro'qegh'Iwchab, targh tIq Sop 'e' lungIl Humanpu' puS Few humans dare to eat gagh, rokeg blood pie, or heart of targ. (S21) ghap or, either/or (noun conj): HIq qIj reghuluS 'Iw HIq ghap jab They serve Black Ale or Regulan bloodwine. (CK) {A B ghap jab} “they serve them” not {lujab} “they serve it” -- Voragh From: nIqolay Q Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 12:54 PM I don't think the plurality of phrases with {joq} or {ghap} has ever been discussed. I don't know if there's any examples. My guess is that since {joq} also includes the idea of "and", it should be considered plural. But that's just a guess, and I have no idea what to do with {ghap}, or what to do with the broader question of unknown plurality. We may have to kick this one over to Maltz. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Aurélie Demonchaux <demonchaux.aurelie(a)gmail.com> wrote: While discussing on the "Learn Klingon" group on Facebook, we wondered how to choose the correct verb prefix when "joq" (and / or) is used in the object and / or subject of the sentence. If we have the structure: noun1 noun2 joq + verb Do we consider that the object of the verb is singular or plural ? Using an example sentence: We need to learn French and / or Klingon. 1/ vIraS Hol tlhIngan Hol joq wIghojnIS. 2/ vIraS Hol tlhIngan Hol joq DIghojnIS if it were just a "je" we'd use "DI-" without hesitating, or if it were a "ghap" we'd use "wI-", but with joq... ? Has it already been discussed at some point what to do when you can't determine whether a verb's object / subject is singular or plural ?

3 3

Re: [tlhIngan Hol] law' and 'Iq
by mayqel qunenoS 01 Sep '17

01 Sep '17

SuStel: > *'Iq* is an inherently negative concept. Does the {tlhoy} convey a negative concept too ? If I say {tlhoy batlh chIw} for "he epitomizes honor excessively", then is this something positive, or something negative ? qunnoq On Sep 1, 2017 17:43, "Steven Boozer" <sboozer(a)uchicago.edu> wrote: (IMO, *HolQeD* 8.3): When *tlhoy *is used, it denotes that the action expressed by the verb is what is being overly done or done too much. … To express the idea of “too much *gagh*” or “too many tribbles,” the verb *'Iq* *be too many, be too much* is used adjectivally. For example: *yIHmey 'Iq vIlegh* *I see too many tribbles*. *qagh 'Iq vISop* * I eat too much gagh*. Sometimes, the word *law'qu'* *be very many* (formed from *law'* *be many* plus –*qu'*, the emphatic suffix) is translated 'be too many.' If the context is clear, this is acceptable, but if it important to stress the idea of “overly many, overly much, more than there ought to be,” *tlhoy *or *'Iq* is usually employed. --Voragh *From:* mayqel qunenoS We know we can say {'ul law'} for "a great amount of electricity"; but can we say too {'ul 'Iq} for "too much electricity" ? Other than that, is there any other considerable difference between {law'} and {'Iq} ? That is a difference besides the level of "how much", expressed by each. For example, is the {'Iq} only to be used in cases where we want to express something negative ? For example {jagh 'Iq}, or can it be used too in order to refer to something positive, for example {batlh 'Iq} ? qunnoq _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol(a)lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

2 1

With "joq" - how do we choose the right verb prefix ?
by Aurélie Demonchaux 31 Aug '17

31 Aug '17

Hello all, While discussing on the "Learn Klingon" group on Facebook, we wondered how to choose the correct verb prefix when "joq" (and / or) is used in the object and / or subject of the sentence. If we have the structure: noun1 noun2 joq + verb Do we consider that the object of the verb is singular or plural ? Using an example sentence: We need to learn French and / or Klingon. 1/ vIraS Hol tlhIngan Hol joq *wI*ghojnIS. 2/ vIraS Hol tlhIngan Hol joq *DI*ghojnIS if it were just a "je" we'd use "DI-" without hesitating, or if it were a "ghap" we'd use "wI-", but with joq... ? Has it already been discussed at some point what to do when you can't determine whether a verb's object / subject is singular or plural ? Thanks in advance :) Aurélie

7 7