December 2016 - tlhIngan-Hol

Re: [tlhIngan Hol] How do you explain {'InSong} ?
by mayqel qunenoS 10 Dec '16

10 Dec '16

my confusion originated from the misconception, that we don't analyze words in three/two letter clusters, but rather we start from the beginning and going (cvcvcvcvcv..). anyway, I understand now. loghaD Quvar je Satlho'. qunnoH jan puqloD ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta' On 10 Dec 2016 1:37 pm, "Lieven" <levinius(a)gmx.de> wrote: Am 10.12.2016 um 11:27 schrieb mayqel qunenoS: > according to the rule of cvc, how come that after the {n} the {S} > follows ? this produces (cvccvc). > I still do not know why you are suddenly confused, why this word? See your own signature: qunnoH jan puqloD > qun-noH jan puq-loD CVC-CVC CVC CVC-CVC ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta' > ghogh-wIj Hab-lI'-vo' CVC-CVC CVC-CVC-CVC -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol(a)lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Expressing "god damn"
by mayqel qunenoS 10 Dec '16

10 Dec '16

I'm afraid you misunderstood me.. I didn't mean to say "your mother cooked this damn good food"; I meant "your mother cooked this god damn food". qunnoH jan puqloD ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta' On 9 Dec 2016 3:47 pm, "Felix Malmenbeck" <felixm(a)kth.se> wrote: I'm rather sleep-deprived, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow before participating in the large debate which I'm sure this will elicit, but: I wouldn't use {jay'} when making a compliment. {jay'} is invective, not just emphatic. You're basically saying "Your mother bakes jinxed food, and this fills me with contempt." When we say something is damn good, we're using a vulgar expression, but we're not using it invectively. I doubt the average Klingon would find the damnation of gods particularly important (they're all dead, anyway), so it probably wouldn't be a part of idiomatic speech (although you never know). However, if you wish to explain the Terran phrase, you might want to construct a relative clause using joH'a'/Qun, and pum/qIch/QeHmoH. //loghaD ------------------------------ *From:* tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces(a)lists.kli.org> on behalf of mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun(a)gmail.com> *Sent:* Friday, December 9, 2016 14:40 *To:* tlhIngan Hol mailing list *Subject:* [tlhIngan Hol] Expressing "god damn" So, I've been wondering for quite some time now, how to express the DIvI' Hol "god damn". How to convey its essence in klingon.. Of course the question is: what does "god damn" exactly mean ? does it mean that "god damns whatever", or the one who speaks "damns/curses god" ? Anyway, the way I *feel* this wonderful DIvI' Hol expression, if I wanted to say: "your mother cooked this god damn food" I would express it like this in tlhIngan Hol: {Sojvam 'Igh vutta' SoSlI' jay'} the only problem is that the element of "god" is missing from this sentence; but I believe this is indirectly being conveyed by the {'Igh}. when something is cursed, either god has done the "cursing", or a human through "god". so, I think that by the proper combination of {'Igh} and {jay'}, we can express in klingon this wonderful english expression. 'ej DaH, rIn QInvam 'Igh jay' ! hahaha qunnoH jan puqloD ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta' _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol(a)lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

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chIq
by SuStel 09 Dec '16

09 Dec '16

The New Words list has *chIq*/cross, transverse (v)./ In English /transverse/ is an adjective. Does this word mean /place something across something else,/ or is the definition a typo for /cross, traverse/?// -- SuStel http://trimboli.name

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The beauty of friday nights
by mayqel qunenoS 09 Dec '16

09 Dec '16

reH buqjaj ram vIparHa'.. qaStaHvIS jaj veb jIvumbe'mo', paSchoHtaHvIS, much vIbejlaH, 'ej vIbejtaHvIS *souvlaki*mey vISop 'ej HIq vItlhutlh. DaH, chaq vIjatlhlu': tlhoy *souvlaki*mey DaSop.. teH ! ngoDvam vItemQo' ! 'elaDya'ngan jIHmo', roSghaHwIjDaq *souvlaki*mey tu'lu' ! hahaha qunnoH jan puqloD ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'

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The captured decepticon
by mayqel qunenoS 09 Dec '16

09 Dec '16

decepticon lujonDI’ autobot, lujoy’choH.. HoS polmeH chu’Ha’’egh neH ghaH, ‘ach ‘e’ luchaw’Qo’ autobot. ‘ay’meyDaj leHmeH ngIS poQ ‘a lunobQo’, qawHaqDaj leHmeH ‘ul ghajnIS, ‘a ghaHvaD ‘ulvam luHutlhmoH. vaj, tagha’ Hegh.. ‘ach taQbe’choHpa’ qulHomDaj, joy’wI’pu’Daj legh ‘ej jatlh: not qo’vam boche’. Qamqa’ pumwI’. qunnoH jan puqloD

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Expressing "god damn"
by mayqel qunenoS 09 Dec '16

09 Dec '16

I didn't know these info with regards to the {'Igh} ! I thought it literally meant "to be cursed". thanks for telling me. qunnoH jan puqloD ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta' On 9 Dec 2016 7:11 pm, "Steven Boozer" <sboozer(a)uchicago.edu> wrote: *{'Igh}* be cursed, be jinxed (*slang*) (v) (KGT 167): This is a slang term with no known origin. It can be applied to just about anything--persons, missions, ships, and so on--when everything seems to be going wrong. Since Klingons consider self-control a great virtue, declaring oneself to be cursed is comparable to an admission of weakness and utterly uncharacteristic (though not unknown). To say that someone else is cursed, on the other hand, is to attribute weakness to that person. Accordingly, {*bI'Igh} *(“*You are cursed, you are jinxed”*) is quite insulting. In standard Klingon, the same idea may be expressed by saying {*Do'Ha'moHlu'} *(“*be made unlucky”* or “*someone/something causes * [*someone/something*] *to be unlucky”*), as in {*DaDo'Ha'moHlu'} *(“*You've been made unlucky”*, or “*someone/something causes you to be unlucky*)”. *{jay'} *intensely (adv) (TKD 177): This word not only intensifies whatever is being said, it turns the whole phrase into an invective. Alone among the adverbials, {*jay'}* always comes at the end of the sentence. * qaStaH nuq jay'* What the #$%@ is happening? TKD *mIch 'elpu' jay'* They've entered the @#$% sector! TKD *SoH 'Iv jay'* [*Who the *@#$% * are you*? (untranslated)] ST6 *qaStaH nuq jay'* [*What the *@#$%* is happening*? (untranslated)] ST6 *ghaytanHa' jay'* Not bloody likely! RT *tuHbe' tlhInganvam jay' * Curse this Klingon, who has no shame! PB mayqel qunenoS: > I meant "your mother cooked this god damn food". Note the second TKD example which *is an exact parallel to your sentence.* *--Voragh* *On Behalf Of *nIqolay Q *Sent:* Friday, December 09, 2016 10:52 AM {Sojvam vutta' SoSlI' jay'} should suffice to get most of the meaning across. I'm not sure that {'Igh} quite works here. The description in KGT suggests it means something like "doesn't work right, prone to failure, unlucky" and not simply just bad in general. _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol(a)lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

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Expressing "god damn"
by mayqel qunenoS 09 Dec '16

09 Dec '16

So, I've been wondering for quite some time now, how to express the DIvI' Hol "god damn". How to convey its essence in klingon.. Of course the question is: what does "god damn" exactly mean ? does it mean that "god damns whatever", or the one who speaks "damns/curses god" ? Anyway, the way I *feel* this wonderful DIvI' Hol expression, if I wanted to say: "your mother cooked this god damn food" I would express it like this in tlhIngan Hol: {Sojvam 'Igh vutta' SoSlI' jay'} the only problem is that the element of "god" is missing from this sentence; but I believe this is indirectly being conveyed by the {'Igh}. when something is cursed, either god has done the "cursing", or a human through "god". so, I think that by the proper combination of {'Igh} and {jay'}, we can express in klingon this wonderful english expression. 'ej DaH, rIn QInvam 'Igh jay' ! hahaha qunnoH jan puqloD ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'

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Klingon Word of the Day: qun
by qurgh＠wizage.net 09 Dec '16

09 Dec '16

Klingon Word of the Day for Friday, December 09, 2016 Klingon word: qun Part of speech: noun Definition: history Source: TKD (103 KE, 137 EK) This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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More on {-moH} and tritransitive verbs
by Michael Kúnin 09 Dec '16

09 Dec '16

Starting with what we know well: 1. Intransitive -> Transitive {yIt K} "K walks" {K yItmoH F} "F makes K walk" / "F walks K" 2. Transitive -> Ditransitive {X ghoj K} "K learns X" {KvaD X ghojmoH F} "F makes K learn X" / "F teaches X to K" And now the step to the unknown: 3. Ditransitive -> Tritransitive {ZvaD X nob K} "K gives X to Z" Goal: "F makes K give X to Z" 3.1. By the logic "expand 2. above," we start with "F makes K give X": {KvaD X nobmoH F} Then we need to insert Z somehow *{ZvaD KvaD X nobmoH F} is clearly ambiguous *{Z'e' KvaD X nobmoH F} "As for Z, F makes K give X" 3.2. By the logic "keep existing objects and make the original subject as close as possible," we start with *{Zvad X nobmoH F} and need to insert K somehow *{K'e' ZvaD X nobmoH F}? note that if this logic applies, then we cannot mechanically translate this "As for K, F makes Z give X" just as {KvaD X ghojmoH F} does not mean *"F makes X learn for K" but "F makes K learn X" 3.3. Lieven's suggestion *{X'e' ZvaD K nobmoH F} ...if would be so much easier if {KvaD X ghojmoH F} were *{X'e' K ghojmoH F}... but this does not exclude that the tritransitive construction, if any, works this way 3.4. Semantically, what about *{ZvaD Kvo' X noblu'moH F} or *{Kvo' ZvaD X noblu'moH F}? however, itdoes not seem so easy to use this approach with {'ang} or {cha'} 3.5. [rant] And now remove F, add {-wI'}, and consider using it as a heading. [/rant] P.S. To avoid confusion: {mayqel qunenoS} and I are different persons.

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Something on the {vabDot}
by mayqel qunenoS 09 Dec '16

09 Dec '16

At this canon sentence: Qo'noS romuluS je boSuqlaH. vabDot tera' Qejbogh DIvI' ram boSuqlaH. kronos, romulus and even the puny federation's precious earth, are all up for grabs. The {vabDot} is referring to the {boSuqlaH}, right ? qunnoH jan puqloD

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