I'm afraid you misunderstood me.. I didn't mean to say "your mother cooked this damn good food"; I meant "your mother cooked this god damn food". qunnoH jan puqloD ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta' On 9 Dec 2016 3:47 pm, "Felix Malmenbeck" <felixm@kth.se> wrote: I'm rather sleep-deprived, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow before participating in the large debate which I'm sure this will elicit, but: I wouldn't use {jay'} when making a compliment. {jay'} is invective, not just emphatic. You're basically saying "Your mother bakes jinxed food, and this fills me with contempt." When we say something is damn good, we're using a vulgar expression, but we're not using it invectively. I doubt the average Klingon would find the damnation of gods particularly important (they're all dead, anyway), so it probably wouldn't be a part of idiomatic speech (although you never know). However, if you wish to explain the Terran phrase, you might want to construct a relative clause using joH'a'/Qun, and pum/qIch/QeHmoH. //loghaD ------------------------------ *From:* tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> *Sent:* Friday, December 9, 2016 14:40 *To:* tlhIngan Hol mailing list *Subject:* [tlhIngan Hol] Expressing "god damn" So, I've been wondering for quite some time now, how to express the DIvI' Hol "god damn". How to convey its essence in klingon.. Of course the question is: what does "god damn" exactly mean ? does it mean that "god damns whatever", or the one who speaks "damns/curses god" ? Anyway, the way I *feel* this wonderful DIvI' Hol expression, if I wanted to say: "your mother cooked this god damn food" I would express it like this in tlhIngan Hol: {Sojvam 'Igh vutta' SoSlI' jay'} the only problem is that the element of "god" is missing from this sentence; but I believe this is indirectly being conveyed by the {'Igh}. when something is cursed, either god has done the "cursing", or a human through "god". so, I think that by the proper combination of {'Igh} and {jay'}, we can express in klingon this wonderful english expression. 'ej DaH, rIn QInvam 'Igh jay' ! hahaha qunnoH jan puqloD ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta' _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Am 09.12.2016 um 15:06 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
I didn't mean to say "your mother cooked this damn good food"; I meant "your mother cooked this god damn food".
Well actually a) there's not much difference and b) you are trying to translate something Klingon has no concept for. Any expression that Christians use with the word "god" is only to thank or to curse their God (the "Lord"). Most people do not think about what it means, they just use it. For instance in German, "Gottseidank" (literally thanks to god) is used with the same meaning of "fortunately". Klingons have no gods, so there's not need to curse them in daily speech. Few days ago, somebody transalted "TGIF" Thanks god it'S friday using Kahless' name. But that's not canon use. When speaking Klingon, use {jay'}, -chu' or -qu' to intensify. No god. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net
On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 09.12.2016 um 15:06 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
I didn't mean to say "your mother cooked this damn good food"; I meant "your mother cooked this god damn food".
Well actually a) there's not much difference and b) you are trying to translate something Klingon has no concept for.
Any expression that Christians use with the word "god" is only to thank or to curse their God (the "Lord").
Most negative expressions using "God" involve God cursing someone or something, not the speaker cursing God. Using "god damn" as an adjective is just a shortening of "god-damned", i.e., damned by God. A literal translation of "god damn food" would probably be {Soj'e' qIchbogh joH'a'} "food that the Lord has condemned", although it lacks the bite of the original and, as Lieven said, curses involving religion are probably not a big thing in Klingon culture. {Sojvam vutta' SoSlI' jay'} should suffice to get most of the meaning across. I'm not sure that {'Igh} quite works here. The description in KGT suggests it means something like "doesn't work right, prone to failure, unlucky" and not simply just bad in general.
{'Igh} be cursed, be jinxed (slang) (v) (KGT 167): This is a slang term with no known origin. It can be applied to just about anything--persons, missions, ships, and so on--when everything seems to be going wrong. Since Klingons consider self-control a great virtue, declaring oneself to be cursed is comparable to an admission of weakness and utterly uncharacteristic (though not unknown). To say that someone else is cursed, on the other hand, is to attribute weakness to that person. Accordingly, {bI'Igh} (“You are cursed, you are jinxed”) is quite insulting. In standard Klingon, the same idea may be expressed by saying {Do'Ha'moHlu'} (“be made unlucky” or “someone/something causes [someone/something] to be unlucky”), as in {DaDo'Ha'moHlu'} (“You've been made unlucky”, or “someone/something causes you to be unlucky)”. {jay'} intensely (adv) (TKD 177): This word not only intensifies whatever is being said, it turns the whole phrase into an invective. Alone among the adverbials, {jay'} always comes at the end of the sentence. qaStaH nuq jay' What the #$%@ is happening? TKD mIch 'elpu' jay' They've entered the @#$% sector! TKD SoH 'Iv jay' [Who the @#$% are you? (untranslated)] ST6 qaStaH nuq jay' [What the @#$% is happening? (untranslated)] ST6 ghaytanHa' jay' Not bloody likely! RT tuHbe' tlhInganvam jay' Curse this Klingon, who has no shame! PB mayqel qunenoS:
I meant "your mother cooked this god damn food".
Note the second TKD example which is an exact parallel to your sentence. --Voragh On Behalf Of nIqolay Q Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 10:52 AM {Sojvam vutta' SoSlI' jay'} should suffice to get most of the meaning across. I'm not sure that {'Igh} quite works here. The description in KGT suggests it means something like "doesn't work right, prone to failure, unlucky" and not simply just bad in general.
On Dec 9, 2016 17:35, "Lieven" <levinius@gmx.de> wrote: Am 09.12.2016 um 15:06 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
I didn't mean to say "your mother cooked this damn good food"; I meant "your mother cooked this god damn food".
Well actually a) there's not much difference and nuqjatlh? The first means the food is great, and the second means it's terrible. -- De'vID
When "damn" has no longer any condemnatory or religious meaning and is merely an emphatic, translate it by a plain emphatic. "god damn food" means (to me) that there is a complaint about the food, perhaps the quality, perhaps the timing such as a 3-course meal offered when I have 5 minutes to get to the railway station. ----Original message----
From : de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com Date : 09/12/2016 - 20:45 (GMTST) To : tlhingan-hol@kli.org Subject : Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Expressing "god damn" On Dec 9, 2016 17:35, "Lieven" <levinius@gmx.de> wrote: Am 09.12.2016 um 15:06 schrieb mayqel qunenoS: I didn't mean to say "your mother cooked this damn good food"; I meant "your mother cooked this god damn food". Well actually a) there's not much difference and nuqjatlh? The first means the food is great, and the second means it's terrible.
Am 09.12.2016 um 21:45 schrieb De'vID:
nuqjatlh? The first means the food is great, and the second means it's terrible.
Oh, yes, true. I misread that as skipping the word "good". jagh yIbuStaH. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net
participants (6)
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Anthony Appleyard -
De'vID -
Lieven -
mayqel qunenoS -
nIqolay Q -
Steven Boozer