why we shouldn't do transcriptions
On 2/27/2020 4:42 PM, SuStel wrote:>
There is Tolkien explicitly telling us to transliterate part of the word and translate the other part. We're not even told what the /crick-/ means. To render it in Klingon, we get *qrIqQemjIqHom.*
Shouldn't that be "qIrIqQemjiqHom"?
On 2/27/2020 9:56 PM, Jesse Manoogian wrote:
On 2/27/2020 4:42 PM, SuStel wrote:
There is Tolkien explicitly telling us to transliterate part of the word and translate the other part. We're not even told what the /crick-/ means. To render it in Klingon, we get *qrIqQemjIqHom.*
Shouldn't that be "qIrIqQemjiqHom"?
No, because I was told to keep /crick-/ the same, and just to adjust to the spelling of the target language. I'm not trying to fit the name into the phonology of Klingon, just transliterate the sounds I'm given as closely as possible. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
Besides, isn't the standard way to transliterate "kr" {Q}? lay'tel SIvten On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:17 PM SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 2/27/2020 9:56 PM, Jesse Manoogian wrote:
On 2/27/2020 4:42 PM, SuStel wrote:
There is Tolkien explicitly telling us to transliterate part of the word and translate the other part. We're not even told what the /crick-/ means. To render it in Klingon, we get *qrIqQemjIqHom.*
Shouldn't that be "qIrIqQemjiqHom"?
No, because I was told to keep *crick-* the same, and just to adjust to the spelling of the target language. I'm not trying to fit the name into the phonology of Klingon, just transliterate the sounds I'm given as closely as possible.
-- SuStelhttp://trimboli.name
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On 2/29/2020 12:23 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote:
Besides, isn't the standard way to transliterate "kr" {Q}?
Standard? What standard? But sure, you might choose *QIqQemjIiqHom.*
lay'tel SIvten
On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:17 PM SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name <mailto:sustel@trimboli.name>> wrote:
On 2/27/2020 9:56 PM, Jesse Manoogian wrote:
On 2/27/2020 4:42 PM, SuStel wrote: > >There is Tolkien explicitly telling us to transliterate part of the word >and translate the other part. We're not even told what the /crick-/ >means. To render it in Klingon, we get *qrIqQemjIqHom.*
Shouldn't that be "qIrIqQemjiqHom"?
No, because I was told to keep /crick-/ the same, and just to adjust to the spelling of the target language. I'm not trying to fit the name into the phonology of Klingon, just transliterate the sounds I'm given as closely as possible.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On 2/29/2020 12:23 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote:
Besides, isn't the standard way to transliterate "kr" {Q}?
Am 01.03.2020 um 02:41 schrieb SuStel:
Standard? What standard?
It's maybe the incorrect word choice, but the "observation" and analysis of existing transliterations shows that kr "usually" corresponds to {Q}: Kronos - Qo'noS kradge - Qaj Kruge - Qugh Sakrej - Sa'Qej valkris - valQIS Kras - QaS K'ratak - Qa'taq Krell - Qel Krenn - Qen Krotmag - Qotmagh The transliteration {qr} appears when it's between two syllables: boq-rat - bokrat Mek-ro'vak - meqro'vaq Ok-rand - 'oqranD I'm not saying it's a rule or a standard, but there's definitely an obvious pattern visible: Not one single syllable starts with {qr}. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Transliteration
Some more examples supporting the pattern : QIncha' krincha (type of animal) (n) QIStaq Kri'stak (GN) QI'yoS wa' Krios Prime (GN) Daqrab well (n) Hoqra' tricorder (n) neqratlh glasses, spectacles (n) SIqral Skral (GN) vIqraq artifact, work of art (n) 'aqroS top [interior]; maximum (n) {SIqral} surprises me a little. I might have expected *{SIQal}. __ Voragh -----------------------------------Original Message----------------------------------- From: Lieven L. Litaer On 2/29/2020 12:23 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote:
Besides, isn't the standard way to transliterate "kr" {Q}?
Am 01.03.2020 um 02:41 schrieb SuStel:
Standard? What standard?
It's maybe the incorrect word choice, but the "observation" and analysis of existing transliterations shows that kr "usually" corresponds to {Q}: Kronos - Qo'noS kradge - Qaj Kruge - Qugh Sakrej - Sa'Qej valkris - valQIS Kras - QaS K'ratak - Qa'taq Krell - Qel Krenn - Qen Krotmag - Qotmagh The transliteration {qr} appears when it's between two syllables: boq-rat - bokrat Mek-ro'vak - meqro'vaq Ok-rand - 'oqranD I'm not saying it's a rule or a standard, but there's definitely an obvious pattern visible: Not one single syllable starts with {qr}. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany"
Am 02.03.2020 um 22:44 schrieb Steven Boozer:
Some more examples supporting the pattern :
QIncha' krincha (type of animal) (n) QIStaq Kri'stak (GN) QI'yoS wa' Krios Prime (GN)
Thanks.
Daqrab well (n) Hoqra' tricorder (n) neqratlh glasses, spectacles (n)
These are not real transriptions, just two-syllable Klingon words.
SIqral Skral (GN) {SIqral} surprises me a little. I might have expected *{SIQal}.
I would agree if the second part was a syllable starting with KR, like "See-kral". In the English spelling having three consonants at the beginning of the word, the vowel was logically added between the first two consonants (as happened in "Sutovokor" or "qI'empeq") so the half result was "SIkral", where it looks like Sik+ral, so SIqral. Of course, there were many other options to do this. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Transliteration
participants (5)
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Jesse Manoogian -
Lieven L. Litaer -
MorphemeAddict -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel