June 2016 - tlhIngan-Hol

[tlhIngan-Hol] Klingon Word of the Day: wID
by qurgh lungqIj 02 Jun '16

02 Jun '16

Klingon Word of the Day for Thursday, June 02, 2016 Klingon word: wID Part of speech: verb Definition: massacre (connotes indiscriminate killing) Source: Star Trek Into Darkness, qepHom 2013 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)wizage.net)

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[tlhIngan-Hol] syllables and fonts (was: RE: Six, Six, Six (song translation))
by DloraH 02 Jun '16

02 Jun '16

But with the syllable patterns of cv and cvc, it doesn't matter what font is used. ||| can be only ell eye ell. If it really is a problem, even with cv/cvc, then have all your tlhIngan Hol email converted to plain text and select a default font that you like. - DloraH > -----Original Message----- > From: Anthony Appleyard [mailto:a.appleyard@btinternet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 23:40 > To: seruq(a)bellsouth.net; tlhingan-hol(a)kli.org > Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Six, Six, Six (song translation) > > This confusion keeps happening with sans-serif fonts. Please, > yet again, please let us stretch the rules and type the > letter eye as lowercase with a dot. > > ----Original message---- > From : seruq(a)bellsouth.net > Date : 01/06/2016 - 01:13 (GMTST) > To : tlhingan-hol(a)kli.org > Subject : Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Six, Six, Six (song translation) > > > maybe also look up nIyma' and 'eIl'jaH, which I don't think > > There are exceptions, but close to all of the syllables we > have observed have been: > cv or cvc. > So, no matter what font is used, that second word would end up: > 'elI'jaH - ell, then eye. cv-cvc-cvc > > ....

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[tlhIngan-Hol] Mailing List Test
by qurgh lungqIj 02 Jun '16

02 Jun '16

waH waH waH! This is a test. Did it pass? qurgh

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[tlhIngan-Hol] jIwaH je
by Lieven 02 Jun '16

02 Jun '16

just sending a message to the list tlhingan-hol(a)kli.org to test what it looks like and if it works. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net

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[tlhIngan-Hol] text speak (was: RE: Six, Six, Six (song translation))
by DloraH 01 Jun '16

01 Jun '16

> I skip > messages on English boards that are written with text speak, > all caps, no caps, or no punctuation. I do it because I > assume that someone who can't conform with the basic > conventions of communication in my language probably doesn't > have anything to say that is worth the extra effort on my > part. I would likely do the same were there a Klingon > writing system schism. > > - Qov I still use a flip-phone. If I send a text, I have to press each number key multiple times. It takes a long time to write texts. Press the number 4 two times to get an "h"; press the number 7 four times to get the letter "s"; and so on. But even with all that, I cannot bring myself to write in text-shorthand. I must spell out words and use punctuation. - DloraH

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Re: [tlhIngan-Hol] [Tlhingan-hol] Klingons and cockroaches
by SuStel 01 Jun '16

01 Jun '16

On 6/1/2016 11:44 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote: > someone tell me, if all these possible translations are correct, for > the sentence which I wrote : > > {targhwIj yIHoHneS} may translate as : > > do me the honor of killing my dog > kill my dog your honor > kill my dog your highness > etc.. *targhwIj yIHoH* /kill my targ! /*targhwIj yIHoHneS* /kill my targ! (showing extreme deference) /That is the complete difference between the two. Aside from expressing deference, the two sentences mean exactly the same thing. Whether you translate the deference as "your honor" or "pretty please" or just by getting on your knees and putting your hands together, the meaning is the same. -- SuStel http://www.trimboli.name/

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Re: [tlhIngan-Hol] [Tlhingan-hol] Klingons and cockroaches
by Steven Boozer 01 Jun '16

01 Jun '16

mayqel qunenoS : > but let me ask one more thing, in order to see whether I actually > understood the {-neS}. > someone tell me, if all these possible translations are correct, for the > sentence which I wrote : > > {targhwIj yIHoHneS} may translate as : > > do me the honor of killing my dog > kill my dog your honor > kill my dog your highness > etc.. > > right ? All correct. The point isn't the precise title or phrase which Okrand added to the translations - i.e. do me the honor, your highness, your majesty, your Magnificence, etc. - but the feel of the deference (dare I say, obsequiousness?) when addressing one of higher rank; probably, significantly higher rank. (I wouldn't expect an army private to use {-neS} to his corporal or a waiter/waitress to a customer, for example.) Interestingly, none of Okrand's examples use {-neS} together with an actual rank or title (e.g. {joHwI'} "my lord/lady", {ta'wI'} "my emperor", {HoD} "captain", or even {qaH} "sir/ma'am" for that matter. I suspect that would be felt as over-doing it or even sarcasm - which could have, as Okrand likes to put it, "unfortunate consequences". -- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons > On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer(a)uchicago.edu> > wrote: > > qunnoq: > >> >> DojneS mIplIj > >> >> Your wealth is impressive, your Honor. PK > >> > > >> > this sentence rubs me the wrong way (as americans say) [...] So, > >> > this means what? that by placing the {-neS} on a verb, I just > >> > express politeness, without this {-neS} though, having anything to > >> > do with altering the verb's meaning? > > > > Lieven: > >> Yes indeed. Whatever the sentence is, by adding {-neS} it makes you > >> talk to a superior. > >> > >> Example: > >> {DaHjaj jungwoqDaq SIS} > >> "Today it's raining in China." > >> > >> adding {-neS} does not change anything on the phrase, except that you > >> show respect to the person you are talking to: > >> {DaHjaj jungwoqDaq SISneS} > >> "Today it's raining in China, sir." > >> "Today it's raining in China, your honor." > >> "Today it's raining in China, honorable king." > >> "Today it's raining in China, you so much admired captain." > >> > >> (of course the words "captain" or "king" are not inlcuded, but it > >> makes the idea clear) > > > > qunnoq should note that it's more than simple courtesy (which is not > something Klingon warriors value), but rather *extreme* politeness or > deference and is only used in addressing a superior. As Okrand pointed > out: "It is never required ... This suffix is used rather infrequently by > Klingons" (TKD p.43). Consequently, there are relatively few known > examples in canon: > > > > qaleghneS > > I am honored to see you. PK > > > > choQaHpu'neS > > You, honored one, have helped me. KGT > > > > qatlhobneS > > Please. (TNK) > > > > po'neS baHwI'pu'lI' > > Your gunners are skilled, your Honor. PK > > > > DojneS mIplIj > > Your wealth is impressive, your Honor. PK > > > > cha'puj vIngevmeH chaw' HInobneS > > Give me a permit to sell dilithium, your honor. PK > > > > QaghwIj vIQIj 'e' yIchaw'neS > > Permit me to explain my mistake, your Honor. PK > > > > naDev juHlIjDaq cha'logh jISopneSchugh vaj jIquv > > It would be an honor to eat twice here at your house, your Honor. PK > > > > > > Here are more details for those interested: > > > > TKD 43: There is but one suffix in this category. It is used to express > extreme politeness or deference. It is used only in addressing a superior, > someone of higher rank in the Klingon social, political, or military > hierarchy. It is never required. > > {qaleghneS} I am honored to see you > > {HIja'neS} do me the honor of telling me > > This suffix is used rather infrequently by Klingons. > > > > KGT 192: Thus, {qaleghneS} ("I see you honorably" or, perhaps more > naturally, "I am honored to see you"), which ends in the honorific suffix > {-neS}, is different in meaning from {qaleghnIS} ("I need to see you"), > which ends in the suffix {-nIS} (need, must). Furthermore, since {-neS} is > used only in addressing a superior, saying {-neS} rather than {-nIS} may > be bestowing honor inappropriately. > > > > KGT 38-39: The most obvious grammatical feature associated with social > status is the verb suffix {-neS} (an honorific) used to express a high > degree of respect or honor. For example, one might say {choQaHpu'neS}, > which might be rather awkwardly translated as "You, honored one, have > helped me". (Compare this to {choQaHpu'} ["You have helped me."]) Though > there is no situation in which the use of {-neS} is required and its use > is rather infrequent, when it is used, it is used only when addressing > someone of higher rank, such as a higher officer in the military or a high > political leader. It would not be used by a higher-ranking officer, for > example, when speaking to a lower-ranking officer, nor would it be used > when talking about a higher-ranking person. Thus, one would not describe > being aided by a superior by saying {muQaHpu'neS} ("He/she, whom I honor, > has helped me"). > > Of course, one does not need the suffix {-neS} in order to speak of > > honor. The adverbial {batlh} (in an honored fashion) may be used for > > exactly this function, as in {batlh muQaHpu'} ("He/she has helped me > > in an honored way" or "He/she has helped me with honor"). While it > > would be entirely inappropriate for a superior to say to an inferior > > {choQaHpu'neS} ("You, honored one, have helped me"), the superior may > > say {batlh choQaHpu'} ("You have helped me in an honored way" or "You > > have helped me with honor"). The relative ranking of individuals may > > be ascertained by noting who says -neS to whom." (KGT 38-39) > > > > (Lawrence Schoen, DaHjaj Hol 110623): {-neS} is an honorific, and you > tack it on to the end of a verb when you are speaking to someone and wish > to convey your deference or respect. You'd certainly use this when > speaking to the Emperor, but might also use it to show respect to a > superior, an elder, a teacher, or most anyone you wish to grovel before > (not that Klingons grovel, mind you). Translations of this suffix always > sound a little odd to English speakers; probably because we don't have > this kind of phenomenon. As such, don't worry too much about the > literalness of the translation, and instead understand the intention, > which is to be formal and polite. > > > > KGT 49: The honorific verb suffix {-neS}, usually used when addressing > a superior, is also used when the verb refers to a suicide attack of some > kind: {HIvneS}, awkwardly translated as "honor-attack", implies that > suicide is part of the plan of the attack. Similarly, {HubneS} ("honor- > defend") is used only when suicide is part of the defense plan. To say > "attack honorably" but not refer to a suicide mission, the adverbial > {batlh} is employed and the suffix {-neS} is not: {batlh HIv} ("attack > honorably, attack in an honorable fashion"). > > > > Honorifics do show up in Terran languages. Arika Okrent wrote in her > entertaining (and highly recommended) 2009 book _In the land of invented > languages: Esperanto rock stars, Klingon poets, Loglan lovers, and the mad > dreamers who tried to build a perfect language_ (New York: Spiegel & Grau; > cf. http://inthelandofinventedlanguages.com/ ): > > > > Honorifics ({-neS}), used to recognize superior social status > > in the person being spoken to or about, are a part of Korean > > and Japanese. [page 270] > > > > > > And while we're talking deference, don't forget {qaH} "sir": > > > > bach Do', qaH... > > A lucky shot sir... ST3 > > > > yajchu', qaH. > > Understood clearly, sir. ST3 > > > > lu', qaH! > > Yes, sir! KGT > > > > But be careful when using it: > > > > KGT 193: Misprounouncing {qaH} as {qagh} has often led to particularly > unfortunate results. > > > > And God help you if you inadvertantly say {qoH} "fool"! > > > > > > -- > > Voragh > > tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' > > Ca'Non Master of the Klingons > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Tlhingan-hol mailing list > > Tlhingan-hol(a)kli.org > > http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol > > _______________________________________________ > Tlhingan-hol mailing list > Tlhingan-hol(a)kli.org > http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol

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