April 2022 - tlhIngan-Hol

Klingon Word of the Day: Qochbe'
by Klingon Word of the Day 05 Apr '22

05 Apr '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Tuesday, April 05, 2022 Klingon word: Qochbe' Part of speech: verb Definition: agree Source: TKD This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Klingon Word of the Day: lIlwI'
by Klingon Word of the Day 04 Apr '22

04 Apr '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Monday, April 04, 2022 Klingon word: lIlwI' Part of speech: noun Definition: simulator Source: November 2016 email to Lieven This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Klingon Word of the Day: 'oy'naQ
by Klingon Word of the Day 04 Apr '22

04 Apr '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Sunday, April 03, 2022 Klingon word: 'oy'naQ Part of speech: noun Definition: painstick, painstik Source: ADD This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Klingon Word of the Day: tlhapqa'
by Klingon Word of the Day 04 Apr '22

04 Apr '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, April 02, 2022 Klingon word: tlhapqa' Part of speech: verb Definition: retrieve, take again, resume taking Source: Klingon Monopoly, published 1 November 2011 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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thoughts on the perfective {-pu'}
by mayqel qunen'oS 04 Apr '22

04 Apr '22

(This is a spin-off from the < {je} "too" applying to the adverb > thread http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/2022-March/019586.html) SuStel: > I think you're still confusing past tense with perfective aspect. Yes, you're right. And unfortunately, as much as I try to get things right, in the end I get confused. So I'll write some simple rules about how I understand (and from now on use) the perfective {-pu'}, and if it's not much trouble tell me if you agree. 1. If I'm narrating events of the past using "historical present", i.e. describing them as they happen, then no perfective is used. Example: Yesterday, I wake up, drink coffee, and leave for work wa'Hu' jIvem, qa'vIn vItlhulth, 'ej yaHwIj vIjaHmeH, juH vItlheD 2. If I'm looking back from the present on actions performed and completed, then I use perfective. Example: Yesterday, I ate pizza wa'Hu' pItSa' vISoppu' 3. If I'm looking back from the present on habitual events/actions of the past, events which can be described by the "used to", no perfective is used. Examples: In the past people honored the gods of greece In the past people used to honor the gods of greece (the second sentence describes the intended meaning) pa'logh 'elaDya' Qunpu' quvmoH nuvpu' In the past people regularly honored the gods of Greece pa'logh roD 'elaDya' Qunpu' quvmoH nuvpu' 4. If I'm looking back from the present on completed events/actions of the past, which weren't habitual, but happened more than once, perfective is used: Examples: In the past, I've eaten ten times pizza pa'logh wa'maHlogh pItSa' vISoppu' In the past, I've often eaten pizza pa'logh pIj pItSa' vISoppu' 5. If I'm looking back from the present on quality verbs, and the quality described can be described by the "used to", no perfective is used: In the past you've been weak In the past you used to be weak (the second sentence describes the intended meaning) pa'logh bIpuj In the past this planet has been regularly cold pa'logh roD bIr yuQvam 6. If I'm looking back from the present on quality verbs, but the quality described can't be described by the "used to", perfective is used: In the past the water has been hot In the past there was just one (or maybe two/three/more) occasion(s) when the water was hot (the second sentence describes the intended meaning) pa'logh tujpu' bIQ In the past the water often has been hot pa'logh pIj tujpu' bIQ This is the best I can do when it comes to understanding the {-pu'}, and I'd love to hear whether you agree/disagree with the above. -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ

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'op after the noun
by mayqel qunen'oS 04 Apr '22

04 Apr '22

The {'op} is defined as "some, an unknown or unspecified quantity", and in the Ca'Non example of Skybox 7 it is used as {'op SuvwI'} i.e in front of a countable noun which doesn't have the plural suffix. The relevant part of that sentence is: {DujvamDaq 'op SuvwI' tu'lu'bogh po' law' tlhIngan yo' SuvwI' law' po' puS} Suppose we say {'op na'ran Soppu' qeSHoS}. Then this could mean either "the fox ate some/an unspecified quantity of an orange", or "the fox ate some/an unspecified quantity of oranges". Perhaps one could argue that based on the Ca'Non example of the Skybox 7, "the 'op before a singular noun is to be interpreted as referring to a plural number of that noun". But I don't know if one could argue that, since in this Ca'Non example, interpreting the {SuvwI'} as being singular is impossible. Because, if interpreting the {SuvwI'} as being singular was possible, then that would mean that "the klingon vessel pagh has some/an unspecified quantity of a warrior", i.e. on the pagh happen to serve some of the most skilled legs/arms/DaynguHDu'/whatever of a warrior in the klingon fleet. Of course in star trek everything is possible, on the other hand though, I think that one could come to the following conclusion with regards to the {'op}: Placing the {'op} before a countable noun which has no plural suffix, could mean either "some, an unknown or unspecified quantity of that noun (singular)" or "some, an unknown or unspecified quantity of a number of that noun". While placing the {'op} before an uncountable noun can only mean ""some/an unspecified quantity of that noun (singular)". Of course, I don't know for sure if this conclusion would be correct.. But now let's get back to the fox.. If I write {'op na'ranmey Soppu' qeSHoS}, then this obviously means ""the fox ate some/an unspecified quantity of oranges". But my problem is that this is ambiguous in the following way: Did the fox walk in the house, find an unspecified quantity of oranges and ate them all ? Or did the fox walk into the house, found 40 oranges and ate some of them ? And if the fox indeed ate only some of the oranges, then why not write {na'ranmey 'op Soppu' qeSHoS} ? After all, we *can* write {pItSa' HochHom Soppu' vIghro' tIQ} for "the ancient cat ate almost all of the pizza". ~ Qa'yIn

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{je} "too" applying to the adverb
by mayqel qunen'oS 04 Apr '22

04 Apr '22

chalqachDaq bIQaDbe' je even in a tower you are not safe I think this sentence shows that the {je} "too" *can* indeed refer to the type-5'ed noun of the sentence too. I know that the translation is given as "even.." instead of "at a tower you aren't safe too", but obviously this is just a matter of choice of words. The only way I can understand it is "in a tower you aren't safe too", i.e. "among the various places where you aren't safe, is a tower too". So perhaps it is possible to say: ngugh bIpujpu' DaH bIpuj je You were weak then You're weak now too Of course one can argue that in the Ca'Non sentence we have a type-5'ed noun and not an adverb, but I think that if this use of {je} "too" applies for type-5'ed nouns, then chances are that it applies too for any non-ovs crap placed at the beginning of the sentence, i.e. adverbs and time stamps. -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ

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{So'} and {-'egh} is there a difference between {jISo'} and {jISo''egh}
by mayqel qunen'oS 04 Apr '22

04 Apr '22

In Greek if we want to say "the officer is hiding in the engine room", we'll say "the officer is hiding in the engine room". But I've noticed in English one could or maybe even *would* say "the officer is hiding himself in the engine room". And this confuses me. As Americans, do you see/feel any difference between saying "the officer is hiding in the engine room" and "the officer is hiding himself in the engine room?" Because I wonder, which of the two I should say: {jonta' pa'Daq So' yaS} or {jonta' pa'Daq So''egh yaS}? -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ

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the "epithets of zeus" is completed
by mayqel qunen'oS 03 Apr '22

03 Apr '22

e The "hellenic gods - epithets of gods - zeus part 11" concludes the translation of the epithets of zeus. The entire text can be found at: https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/zeus-pongmey-chadich/ Of course no one is ever going to read it, but what the hell? It took me a lot of time to write it so I'll post the link anyway. Next will be the epithets of Hera the queen of the gods. t "hellenic gods - epithets of gods - zeus part 11" QIn vIngeHpu'DI', Hoch zeus pongmey cha'DIch vISamlaHpu'bogh vImughpu'. 'Internet DaqvamDaq Hoch pongmeyvam cha'DIch tu'lu': https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/zeus-pongmey-chadich/ 'Internet Daqvam laD pagh net pIHbej, 'a qatlh jISaHnIS jay'? Hochvam vImughtaHvIS, tlhoy jIDoy'choHpu', vaj naDev 'Internet Daqvam vIngeH, 'ej jISaHbe'. hera Qunpu' voDleH pong cha'DIch bIH pong cha'DIch veb'e' vImughbogh. -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ

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hellenic gods - epithets of gods - zeus part 11
by mayqel qunen'oS 03 Apr '22

03 Apr '22

*sabazius*: *zeus* *phrygia* pong cha’DIch. *dionysus* pong ‘oH *sabazius*‘e’, ‘ach *orpheus* bom loSmaH chorghDaq *zeus* ghaH *sabazius*‘e’. mu’tlhegh yamtaw wa’Daq ghaHvaD *kronos* puqloD ponglu’, ‘ej yamtaw mu’tlhegh cha’Daq yamtaw mu’tlhegh wejDaq je *sabazius* bopbogh De’ ‘otHa’lu’taHvIS, SovmoHlu’: >’uS nev’obDajDaq *dionysus* lanpu’ *sabazius, *‘ej ghIq nev’obDaj QISpu’ *sabazius.*< vaj bomvamDaq *zeus* ghaH *sabazius’*e’; Qun pIm ghaHlaHbe’. *sceptuchus:* voDleH naQ ‘uchbogh vay’. *scotitas:* Hurghbogh vay’, tlhoDbogh vay’. *seisichthon: *tera’ QommoHbogh vay’. *semaleus: *‘otHa’bogh vay’ nobwI’. *sosepolis: *veng toDwI’. *soter: *toDwI’, tlhabmoHwI’. vanpu’DI’ leng, ‘ej qaStaHvIS lengvam, nuv luQanlu’taH, *zeus* *soter*vaD* ‘*anmoH nuvpu’. pIj bIQ’a’ verghmeyDaq *zeus* *soter* chIrghmey tu’lu’pu’ (Sarvam chIrgh ‘oH *piraeus* *zeus* chIrgh’e’). HIvje’ wejDIch *wine*vaD *zeus* *soter* *wine* Damlu’, ‘ej *wine*vam tlhutlhchugh vay’, Do’choH net Har, vaj tagha’ {wejDIch}vaD {-DIch} Do’ DamchoHlu’pu’; *zeus*vaD toDwI’ wejDIch ponglu’ je. *argos*Daq *troezene*Daq *laconia*Daq *messene*Daq *mantineia*Daq *megalopolis*Daq je *zeus* pongvam cha’DIch lolu’pu’ je, ‘ej *zeus* *soter*vaD HochvaD lu’anmoHlu’bogh *soteria* luponglu’. ‘ach latlh Qunpu’ pong cha’DIch ‘oH je *soter*‘e’; *helios* *bacchus* je pong cha’DIch ‘oH je. *steropegeretes: *rawbogh vay’, pe’bIl vI’moHbogh vay’. *sthenius/sthenios:* HoSghajwI’, HoSchoHmoHwI’, Dunqu’wI’. *hermione*Daq Sumpu’ *zeus* *sthenius* ‘anmoHmeH qachHom; nagh qoDDaq ‘anmoHmeH qachvam chenmoHlu’pu’. pa’ yanDaj waqmeyDaj je So’pu’ *aegeus*, ‘ej yanvam waqmeyvam je’ Sampu’ *theseus*, naghvam peppu’DI’. *stratius/stratios:* noH bopbogh vay’, mangghommey bopbogh vay’. *zeus* pong cha’DIch ‘oH pongvam cha’DIch’e’, ‘ach *ares *pong cha’DIch ‘oH je. *synestius: *qerjIq ‘avwI’. *teleius: *povbogh vay’, HoSghajchu’bogh vay’. *telesiurgus:* povchoHmoHwI’, naQchoHmoHwI’. *temenites:* SepDaq ‘op Daq le’ tu’lu’; Daqvam luQanlu’, ‘ej QunvaD neH Daqvam lulo’lu’. wa’ Daqvam ponglu’meH, “*temenos*” mu’ lo’lu’, vaj Daqvam Qun Del *temenites. amorgos *‘ambayDaq *zeus* pongvam cha’DIch lo’lu’pu’ je. *themistius: *ruv ‘avbogh ‘ej Qanbogh vay’. *theus agathus:* Qun QaQ. *triophthalmus:* wej mIn Qun. chalmey puHmey bIQ’a’mey je che’ *zeus *‘e’ chIw pongvam cha’DIch. wej mInvaD wej loDnI’ (*zeus poseidon plouton* je) luDamlu’ ‘e’ chIw je. *tropaeuchus: *ghaHvaD tevmey Suqpu’bogh charghwI’pu’ lunoblu’. *tropaeus: *choHbogh vay’, wanI’mey choHbogh vay’, vaj yay nobbogh vay’. *trophonius:** boeotia*Daq *lebadeia*Daq Qun ‘otHa’wI’ tu’lu’pu’, ‘ej ‘otHa’wI’vam bop pongvam cha’DIch. ‘otHa’wI’vam qeS SuqmeH vay’, DIS jaQDaq ghIrpu’. *zeus chthonius*, Sub ghap ghaH *trophohnios*‘e’; DuH lugh Sovchu’be’ vay’, ghItlhmey HaDtaHvIS. *delphi* Qun lulIgh quv chenmoHpu’ vay’; *trophohnios* ghaH vay’vam’e’ net Dam. *uranius:* chalmey DabwI’. *xenius/xenios:* meb, SuchwI’; vaj mebpu’/SuchwI’pu’ Qanbogh Qun ghaH *zeus*‘e’. mebpu’vaD/SuchwI’pu’vaD varHa’ juH ghajwI’, ‘ej chaHvaD jup Da; ghu’vam Qun ghaH *zeus xenius*‘e’, ‘ej juH ghajwI’ DI’onmeyvam chIw. pongvam cha’DIch be’ Sar tu’lu’ je, “*xenia*“‘oH pongvam cha’DIch be’ Sar’e’, ‘ej wa’ *athena *pong cha’DIch ‘oH. vaj DI’onmey Delbogh pongvam cha’DIch chIw je *athena*. *ypsizygus:* Daq jenDaq ‘oHtaH quS’a’Daj’e’; pa’ ba’. *zas:* qo’ mung lut qonpu’ *syros* ‘ambay *pherecydes *vIt nejwI’*, *‘ej lutDajDaq *zeus*vaD *zas* pong. DaHjaj lutvam HochHom SamlaHbe’ vay’, ‘ach wej qo’ bI’reS ghanroq’a’ Del qo’ mung lutvam: *zas*, *chthonie* (tera’), *chronos* (poH) je. *zeus*vaD *dis*, *zin*, *din*, *zis* je pong je *pherecydes *‘e’ SovmoH *herodian*. latlh pongmey lo’ je *pherecydes *‘e’ SovmoH je *herodian.* *zygius/zygia/zugios/zugia:** zeus* pong cha’DIch ‘oH *zygius*‘e’/*zugios*‘e’, ‘ej *hera* pong cha’DIch ‘oH *zygia*‘e’/*zugia*‘e’. tlhogh lurang *zeus hera* je ‘e’ luDel pongvam cha’DIch. -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ

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