April 2022 - tlhIngan-Hol

{pong} {ponglu'} {luponglu'} using the verb {pong} for many names
by mayqel qunen'oS 13 Apr '22

13 Apr '22

There's a chancellor who goes by the names of ghawran, torgh, valQIS, and several other names as well. I want to say "they call the chancellor as ghawran, torgh, valQIS, and by several other names". So I write: QangvaD ghawran, torgh, valQIS, latlhmey je luponglu' Or perhaps: QangvaD ghawran, torgh, valQIS, latlh pongmey je luponglu' Are the above two klingon sentences correct? Or do these sentences actually say that "they call the chancellor ghawran, torgh, valQIS, and they call him {latlhmey}/{latlh pongmey} as well"? Does the presence of the {latlhmey}/{latlh pongmey} in the "name slot" of the {XvaD Y ponglu'} construction necessarily mean that they are to be understood as actual names, instead of normal words? -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ

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Klingon Word of the Day: lIQ
by Klingon Word of the Day 13 Apr '22

13 Apr '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Monday, April 11, 2022 Klingon word: lIQ Part of speech: verb Definition: be stuck (with a puzzle) Source: qep'a' 25 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Perfective with qualities / perfective and perfect
by luis.chaparro＠web.de 12 Apr '22

12 Apr '22

I've been reading the last threads about perfective with interest and (of course!) I still have a couple of questions. 1. I know now that there's no significant canonical example of qualities with *pu'*. That's a fact I'm not discussing and I'm ready to accept it without problem. Unfortunately, since we make in Spanish a difference between qualities in perfective and imperfective tenses, it's very *unnutural* for me not to use perfective in some situations. I just want to give an example of this and if you say: *Ok, maybe that's possible in Spanish, but in Klingon we don't do that*, then I won't do that in Klingon :-) In Spanish there is a big difference between: *La conversación era muy desagradable, así que decidí irme* (*The conversation was very unpleasant, so I decided to leave*) - Imperfective: The situation is presented to the listeners as not completed, as an open box into which they can go and look, so they are put *in medias res*, in the middle of the narrated situation (in their imagination they see the speaker in the middle of an unpleasant conversation and then leaving *before* the conversation was finished). *La conversación fue muy desagradable, así que decidí irme* (*The conversation was very unpleasant, so I decided to leave*) - Perfective: The situation is presented to the listeners as completed, as a closed box they are looking at from the outside and into which they cannot look (in their imagination they see an unpleasant conversation finished and the speaker leaving *after* that). By the way, how can I say *the conversation was unpleasant* in Klingon? *naH ja'chuqtaHghach*? Supossing this is correct, would it make any sense in Klingon to distinguish between *naH* and *naHpu'* in this context? 2. *wa'Hu' rep wa'maH cha' jISoppu'* could have two interpretations, right?: *Yesterday, I ate at 12 pm* (perfective) or *Yesterday, I had (already) eaten at 12 pm*. Is context (or maybe adding something like *wejHa'*) the only way to distinguish these meanings? 3. I discussed this in another thread, I only want to be sure I understood it correctly: Although the sentence in 2 has for the past those two interpretations (perfective not perfect and perfective perfect), for the future (despite the fact this could be otherway in other languages) there is in Klingon only a *perfective perfect* interpretation (not a *perfective not perfect* one): *wa'leS rep wa'maH cha' jISoppu'* can only be *Tomorrow, I will have eaten at 12 pm*, right? Thank you for your patience!

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Klingon Word of the Day: Huy'Dung
by Klingon Word of the Day 12 Apr '22

12 Apr '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Tuesday, April 12, 2022 Klingon word: Huy'Dung Part of speech: noun Definition: forehead (regional) Source: KGT This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Klingon Word of the Day: vI'
by Klingon Word of the Day 08 Apr '22

08 Apr '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Friday, April 08, 2022 Klingon word: vI' Part of speech: noun Definition: marksmanship Source: KGT (229 KE, 239 EK) This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Klingon Word of the Day: pa' reD
by Klingon Word of the Day 08 Apr '22

08 Apr '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Thursday, April 07, 2022 Klingon word: pa' reD Part of speech: noun Definition: interior face of exterior wall Source: This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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perfective {-pu'} using/combining aspect with aspect
by mayqel qunen'oS 08 Apr '22

08 Apr '22

This was going to be a thread where I would ask for clarification on something I didn't understand. Luckily though, SuStel already clarified this matter on the following thread: perfective {-pu'} using/combining aspect with no aspect http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/2022-April/019663.html But I'll proceed by writing some thoughts on this thread, more as note to my future self, explaining to him what it was that made me/him/us confused about this matter. So.. The whole confusion started when I wanted to write: "the inhabitants had started from the earliest times consulting the oracle". After some thought, I decided translating this sentence as "the inhabitants had started obtaining the advice of the oracle, when the the early eras had become to happen". So I wrote: Qun 'otHa'wI' qeS luSuqchoHpu' ngan, qaSchoHpu'DI' bovmey 'eq But the problem now was the following.. Suppose I put the second part of that sentence first: qaSchoHpu'DI' bovmey 'eq, Qun 'otHa'wI' qeS luSuqchoHpu' ngan This sentence now gave me the impression that "when the early eras have begun to happen, the inhabitants had begun obtaining the advice of the oracle", meaning that their starting to obtain the advice, had preceded the commencement of the early eras. This confusion continued until SuStel wrote in the aforementioned thread: ********** quote starts ********** SuStel: Saying wa'Hu' jIXpu' doesn't mean "as of yesterday I have already done X." It means "yesterday, I performed a completed action X." "Completed" doesn't mean action X was a fulfillment of a goal; it's just a way of looking at action X from afar, without internal parts. ********** quote ends ********** Of course, SuStel doesn't talk about a {-XchoHpu'DI', -YchoHpu'} case, but I think that whatever goes for the {wa'Hu' jIXpu'} goes as well for the {-XchoHpu'DI', -YchoHpu'}. Instead of a "yesterday" when the performing of a completed action occured, we now have a {-choH} which is {-pu'}ed when/as soon as a {-choHpu'} happens. So all is good. But unfortunately, I still had the problem already described, whenever I read the {qaSchoHpu'DI' bovmey 'eq, Qun 'otHa'wI' qeS luSuqchoHpu' ngan} "when the early eras have begun to happen, the inhabitants had begun obtaining the advice of the oracle". And I couldn't understand why I was having this problem. Until I realized what was happening (or at least I think I did..) My confusion started from reading the {qaSchoHpu'DI' bovmey 'eq, Qun 'otHa'wI' qeS luSuqchoHpu' ngan} as "when the early eras have begun to happen, the inhabitants had begun obtaining the advice of the oracle", and then translating the English sentence to Greek. If however I read the Klingon as "as soon as the early eras have begun to happen, the inhabitants have begun obtaining the advice of the oracle" (i.e. instead of a "when" I used "as soon as" and instead of a "had" I used a "have"), then neither the English nor the Greek equivalent would sound strange. All I had to do would be perform these tweaks, and voila! Bob's your uncle (as this obscure English idiom/proverb/saying whatever the hell it is, would say..) So finally the confusion went away and everything became right as rain. -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ

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perfective {-pu'} using/combining aspect with no aspect
by mayqel qunen'oS 07 Apr '22

07 Apr '22

I want to say "Yesterday, because I was hungry, I ordered a pizza", and I want to report the event not in the historical present, but looking back on it. There are two options: wa'Hu' jIghungmo', pItSa' vIvun wa'Hu' jIghungmo', pItSa' vIvunpu' Since I'm looking back on the event, the obvious choice must be {wa'Hu' jIghungmo', pItSa' vIvunpu'}. But isn't it strange saying "Yesterday, because I am hungry, I have ordered a pizza"? Is using/combining aspect with no aspect something which we can do? Or is it that in occasions as the above, the only choice is to report the event in the historical present? -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ

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Klingon course at Signum University
by SuStel 06 Apr '22

06 Apr '22

This is mostly of interest to people who are /not/ on this list, but I wanted to make it known here anyway. In May I'll be teaching a course of basic Klingon grammar for Signum University, an online university with an adult continuing education program. It's a four-week course, meeting on Zoom twice a week, one hour per session, that will basically go over all the grammar in the second edition of /The Klingon Dictionary,/ with the occasional foray into later-learned grammar. I've tried to arrange the course in a more friendly-to-learn way than TKD, though with only eight sessions there are still times when I have to cram a whole bunch of suffixes into one session. I won't try to teach a huge amount of vocabulary — I'm not any good at the big piles of words we've gotten over the last few years — but the course will be taught to enable a student armed with a word-list or lookup app to put sentences together grammatically. This is not a free course. As part of Signum's SPACE program, it costs $150 for a single token to take a single course, with discounts for buying multiple tokens. (And I'm not expecting to get paid for doing this.) The sessions are not recorded. If it does well, there might be a "Klingon 2" course later, wherein I teach all the slang and idioms and colors and proverbs and familial terms and so on, and there might even be a course where we all read the Klingon Hamlet or some other book. (Hamlet would be great for the established connection between Klingon and Shakespeare, but a book with up to date grammar might be better.) I listen to the podcasts of Corey Olsen, known as "the Tolkien Professor" and founder of Signum University, and in one podcast, while he was talking about new courses in his university's adult continuing education program, a live listener asked if they'd be offering Klingon. He said they didn't have any plans for it, but it would be a great thing to do. So I wrote to him and offered to teach a course. He was excited and connected me with the director of the program. It was a candidate course in March, and enough people signed up for it to confirm it as a May module. So that's how this came to be. The course page: https://blackberry.signumuniversity.org/space/modules/iteration/47/ The SPACE program: https://signumuniversity.org/space/ -- SuStel http://trimboli.name

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Klingon Word of the Day: mIv'a'
by Klingon Word of the Day 06 Apr '22

06 Apr '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Wednesday, April 06, 2022 Klingon word: mIv'a' Part of speech: noun Definition: crown Source: KGT (219 KE, 239 EK) This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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