{pong} {ponglu'} {luponglu'} using the verb {pong} for many names
There's a chancellor who goes by the names of ghawran, torgh, valQIS, and several other names as well. I want to say "they call the chancellor as ghawran, torgh, valQIS, and by several other names". So I write: QangvaD ghawran, torgh, valQIS, latlhmey je luponglu' Or perhaps: QangvaD ghawran, torgh, valQIS, latlh pongmey je luponglu' Are the above two klingon sentences correct? Or do these sentences actually say that "they call the chancellor ghawran, torgh, valQIS, and they call him {latlhmey}/{latlh pongmey} as well"? Does the presence of the {latlhmey}/{latlh pongmey} in the "name slot" of the {XvaD Y ponglu'} construction necessarily mean that they are to be understood as actual names, instead of normal words? -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ
Since there is no grammatical way to differentiate between the word {latlh} and someone whose parents decided to name them that, I’d probably presume the more common word than the name for which we have no evidence anyone is called. Sufficient context, or a more explicitly worded expression might make the exception more obvious. This isn’t really a language issue. I’m sure that in most, if not all languages, you’d have the same issue. We’ve been through this as a community. One of our former Beginner Grammarians took on the name {pagh}. He expanded our perspective of potential meanings for all sentences describing nobody, or the actions no one committed. And yet, the language survived. pItlh charghwI’ ‘utlh (ghaH, ghaH, -Daj)
On Apr 11, 2022, at 7:51 AM, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
There's a chancellor who goes by the names of ghawran, torgh, valQIS, and several other names as well.
I want to say "they call the chancellor as ghawran, torgh, valQIS, and by several other names".
So I write:
QangvaD ghawran, torgh, valQIS, latlhmey je luponglu'
Or perhaps:
QangvaD ghawran, torgh, valQIS, latlh pongmey je luponglu'
Are the above two klingon sentences correct? Or do these sentences actually say that "they call the chancellor ghawran, torgh, valQIS, and they call him {latlhmey}/{latlh pongmey} as well"?
Does the presence of the {latlhmey}/{latlh pongmey} in the "name slot" of the {XvaD Y ponglu'} construction necessarily mean that they are to be understood as actual names, instead of normal words?
-- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ <https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/> Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 at 13:51, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
There's a chancellor who goes by the names of ghawran, torgh, valQIS, and several other names as well.
I want to say "they call the chancellor as ghawran, torgh, valQIS, and by several other names".
So I write:
QangvaD ghawran, torgh, valQIS, latlhmey je luponglu'
Or perhaps:
QangvaD ghawran, torgh, valQIS, latlh pongmey je luponglu'
Are the above two klingon sentences correct? Or do these sentences actually say that "they call the chancellor ghawran, torgh, valQIS, and they call him {latlhmey}/{latlh pongmey} as well"?
Does the presence of the {latlhmey}/{latlh pongmey} in the "name slot" of the {XvaD Y ponglu'} construction necessarily mean that they are to be understood as actual names, instead of normal words?
There's no problem with interpreting them as normal words meaning "others, other names". A number of known Klingon names are common words, and they haven't caused any serious problems. I expect that, were some Klingon to name their child {latlhmey} for some weird reason, and you wanted to say "they're called ghawran, torgh, valQIS, and 'latlhmey' ", you'd have to indicate that by marking the name {latlhmey} somehow when writing in Klingon (like I did in English with quotation marks). Also, consider the expressions {latlh je}, {latlh latlh latlh}, and {taH taH taH} (which were revealed at qep'a' cha'maH javDIch). -- De'vID
charghwI':
This isn’t really a language issue. I’m sure that in most, if not all languages, you’d have the same issue.
Indeed, you're right. Rethinking this I realized that this could happen in English as well as in Greek. In fact this matter reminds of a Friends episode, where Chandler having run away before the marriage, leaves a note saying "Tell Monica I'm sorry", and Phoebe says that perhaps he meant that his name is "Sorry": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3P7xfCsqa0 De'vID:
There's no problem with interpreting them as normal words meaning "others, other names"
Ok, thanks. Now I understand. -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ
participants (3)
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De'vID -
mayqel qunen'oS -
Will Martin