August 2016 - tlhIngan-Hol

Crescent moon
by mayqel qunenoS 25 Aug '16

25 Aug '16

I just noticed.. We use {maS'e' loQ So'be'bogh QIb}, in order to say "crescent moon". Shouldn't the {loQ} come first ? qunnoq if only I could disable chrome auto-correct

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Klingon Word of the Day: rItlh 'echlet
by qurgh＠wizage.net 25 Aug '16

25 Aug '16

Klingon Word of the Day for Thursday, August 25, 2016 Klingon word: rItlh 'echlet Part of speech: noun Definition: ink pad Source: qepHom 2015 p.19 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Saruman and Lurtz
by mayqel qunenoS 24 Aug '16

24 Aug '16

Reading again the two sentences I posted, I came to realize this : The event described by the {-pu'} needs to have 1. a beginning 2. an end The fact that it has ended, doesn't necessarily mean that it has stopped being in effect. Example: The cat fell in the paint and became blue. This is an event which has a beginning, an end, and its effect continues beyond the end of the event (the "fall" ended) however the cat continues to be blue. So, if we reconsider the elf-orc examples, perhaps we could comment the following. wa'Hu' elf ghaHpu'. This must mean that during yesterday "his being an elf" was completed. Today, perhaps he is still an elf, or he became an orc. We don't know. The sentence only talks about the completion of an event, which completion occured yesterday. However the question arises: Yesterday he is an elf. This reality was completed yesterday. But when did it start ? This is THE question. The way I understand the {-pu'} so far, the perfective specifies only the fact that the action was completed ; its job isn't to provide information with regards to "when the action actually begun". Yesterday his "being an elf" came to completion. Perhaps the process which led to his "becoming an elf" started yesterday, perhaps it started a thousand years ago. We don't know and we can't tell that from the {-pu'} alone, simply because that's not its job. For the time being, this summarizes my understanding of the perfective {-pu'}. qunnoq ghogh HablI'wIjvo' vIngeHta' On 24 Aug 2016 5:55 p.m., "mayqel qunenoS" <mihkoun(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Searching the web desperate for answers, I realized that our problem > here isn't the {-ta'} {-taH} or {-lI'}. It is focused on the {-pu'}. > > So, after some digging I found these two sentences which concern the > use of {-pu'}. > > SuStel tIlaD: > > 1. Perfective aspect is used in referring to an event conceived as > bounded and unitary, without reference to any flow of time during ("I > helped him") > > 2. The perfect aspect indicates that the end of the action is known > and is used to emphasize the fact that the action is complete. > > Now, I want to ask you: > > 1. Do you agree with the above ? > > 2. If you do agree, then how would you define an event as being > "bounded and unitary" ? > > DaH, logh DaqvamDaq ratlh buq'IrwIj 'ej jabbI'IDlIj pIH. > > qunnoq > > ghogh HablI'wIjvo' vIngeHta' > > On 24 Aug 2016 1:48 p.m., "mayqel qunenoS" <mihkoun(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Searching the web desperate for answers, I realized that our problem >> here isn't the {-ta'} {-taH} or {-lI'}. It is focused on the {-pu'}. >> >> So, after some digging I found these two sentences which concern the >> use of {-pu'}. >> >> SuStel tIlaD: >> >> 1. Perfective aspect is used in referring to an event conceived as >> bounded and unitary, without reference to any flow of time during ("I >> helped him") >> >> 2. The perfect aspect indicates that the end of the action is known >> and is used to emphasize the fact that the action is complete. >> >> Now, I want to ask you: >> >> 1. Do you agree with the above ? >> >> 2. If you do agree, then how would you define an event as being >> "bounded and unitary" ? >> >> DaH, logh DaqvamDaq ratlh buq'IrwIj 'ej jabbI'IDlIj pIH. >> >> qunnoq >> >> On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 9:54 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > SuStel: >> >> No, it needs to be completed by the action to which the verb the >> suffix is attached to >> >> refers. If that very verb doesn't describe the completion of the >> action, then the completion >> >> suffix isn't appropriate. >> > >> > I didn't understand a word of this.. >> > >> > jIH: >> >> the event, which is described by the aspect suffix {-pu'} must : >> >> 1. be completed >> >> 2. have stopped being in effect >> > SuStel: >> >> No >> > >> > I studied the elf-orc examples, and I can't understand why the two >> > conditions I described aren't correct/applicable. >> > >> > I don't know.. this is rather confusing. And I wonder ; even you and >> > lieven couldn't agree on this whole "aspect matter".. And you're both >> > grammarians/experts ! >> > >> > So, what hope is there for a simple guy to figure this out ? >> > >> > Normally, I would throw the towel and follow in the footsteps of our >> > good captain. However, because I'm a capricorn I can't quit ! >> > >> > So, this is how this will go down.. I will study on the internet about >> > aspect in general, and after I finish I will write my conclusions. >> > Then, we'll take it from there.. >> > >> > toQDujlIj ghomqa'DI' buq'IrwIj, Ser wIchav. 'e' vItul.. >> > >> > qunnoq >> > >> > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 9:21 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> maj SuStel ! >> >> >> >> wa'leS, mu'meylIj vIpoj ! DaH, whisky vItlhutlhta'mo' 'ej jIDoy'mo', >> >> jIQongnIS ! murIt QongDaqwIj.. >> >> >> >> jIQongtaHvIS, nIyma'pu' vIleghbe'. 'e' vItul ! >> >> >> >> qunnoq >> >> ghogh HablI'vo aah who cares.. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 23 Aug 2016 8:35 p.m., "SuStel" <sustel(a)trimboli.name> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> On 8/23/2016 11:56 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote: >> >>> >> >>> SuStel: >> >>> >> >>> That's your error. During the "once," they were still >> >>> elves. When it was "once," being elves wasn't completed. >> >>> >> >>> hmm.. Perhaps I'm beginning to understand. So you're saying that the >> >>> event, which is described by the aspect suffix {-pu'} must : >> >>> >> >>> 1. be completed >> >>> 2. have stopped being in effect >> >>> >> >>> right ? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> No, it needs to be completed by the action to which the verb the >> suffix is >> >>> attached to refers. If that very verb doesn't describe the completion >> of the >> >>> action, then the completion suffix isn't appropriate. >> >>> >> >>> Suppose I was an elf yesterday and I'm an orc today. >> >>> >> >>> wa'Hu' elf jIH >> >>> I was an elf yesterday. >> >>> During yesterday, I was being an elf. I didn't complete being an elf >> >>> during yesterday. I completed being an elf after yesterday, but I >> didn't say >> >>> DorDI' wa'Hu', I said wa'Hu'. So being an elf was completed, but it >> wasn't >> >>> completed during yesterday. >> >>> >> >>> wa'Hu' elf jIHpu' >> >>> I was (and completed being) an elf yesterday. >> >>> During yesterday, I was and elf and then my being an elf was >> complete. I >> >>> stopped being an elf during yesterday, though I had been one before >> that. >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> SuStel >> >>> http://trimboli.name >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list >> >>> tlhIngan-Hol(a)lists.kli.org >> >>> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org >> >>> >> >> >> >

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Klingon Word of the Day: Qur
by qurgh＠wizage.net 24 Aug '16

24 Aug '16

Klingon Word of the Day for Wednesday, August 24, 2016 Klingon word: Qur Part of speech: noun Definition: structure, organization, anatomy Source: qepHom 2011, Email from Marc Okrand of 25 October 2011 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Saruman and Lurtz
by mayqel qunenoS 24 Aug '16

24 Aug '16

*lurtz*vaD QIjtaH *saruman* ; jatlhtaH: chay' orcs chenmoHlu'ta' ? bISov'a' ? wa'DIch elves chaHpu' 'ach quchta' HoSwI'pu' Hurgh ; joy'ta' 'ej porghchaj luQaw'ta'.. tagha' ghot rIQchu' mojpu'.. lo'laHbe'pu' chaH.. ghot luQaw'lu'chu'ta'bogh chaH. 'ach DaH povchoH chaH ! SuvmeH *uruk-hai*wIj.. 'Iv Datoy' ? ('ej ngugh jang lurtz) : Saruman !!! qunnoq

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Scary youtube videos
by mayqel qunenoS 23 Aug '16

23 Aug '16

reH youtube much mughIjbogh vIbej. reH ! qatlh ? qatlh vIbej ? 'ej qaStaHvIS ram puchpa' vIlo'vIp ! juHwIjDaq qaStaHvIS ram jIyItvIp ! nIyma'pu' jay'.. youtube vIbupnISbej.. qunnoq

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Klingon Word of the Day: qIch
by qurgh＠wizage.net 23 Aug '16

23 Aug '16

Klingon Word of the Day for Tuesday, August 23, 2016 Klingon word: qIch Part of speech: verb Definition: condemn Source: TKD (102 KE, 125 EK) This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Using regional words
by mayqel qunenoS 23 Aug '16

23 Aug '16

How is someone supposed to use regional words ? He just throws them in the passage, and hopes that the reader will figure out they are regional ? qunnoq

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] When better is missing go with preferable
by mayqel qunenoS 23 Aug '16

23 Aug '16

the million dollar question (as americans say) now arises: what is the exact opposite of {qaq} ? is there one in klingon ? qunnoq ghogh HablI'wIjvo' vIngeHta' On 18 Aug 2016 9:21 p.m., "Steven Boozer" <sboozer(a)uchicago.edu> wrote: qunnoq : > Thousand times I came across the need to express in klingon the word > "better". And a thousand times I came up with nothing, because in > klingon we can't form comparatives in the way good-better-best. > Until just a minute ago, a light bulb lit inside my head! And I[] > realized that in the place of the absent "better", we can use {qaq} > instead. Problem solved ! FYI we have two sentences with {qaq} - ironically in a law'/puS comparative: tlhutlhmeH HIq ngeb qaq law' bIQ qaq puS Drinking fake ale is better than drinking water. TKW QamvIS Hegh qaq law' torvIS yIn qaq puS Better to die on our feet than live on our knees. ST6 ("Dying while standing is preferable to living while kneeling" TKW) Okrand also discussed [qaq} a bit: (st.klingon): ... the answer to the question {jarlIj qaq nuq?} ("What is your preferable month?") would presumably be a definition of your favorite month ... What you really mean to ask is something like "Of all the months, which one do you prefer?" ... You use {qaq}, "be preferable", adjectivally ({jarlIj qaq} is "your preferable month"). I think what you mean is better expressed by using the verb {maS} "prefer" with you as the subject... -- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol(a)lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

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Klingon Word of the Day: 'ut'at
by qurgh＠wizage.net 23 Aug '16

23 Aug '16

Klingon Word of the Day for Sunday, August 21, 2016 Klingon word: 'ut'at Part of speech: noun Definition: chest of drawers Source: qep'a' 23 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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