August 2016 - tlhIngan-Hol

then/now and law'/puS
by mayqel qunenoS 29 Aug '16

29 Aug '16

I'm almost certain you'll tell me no, but because as the greek proverb goes "hope dies last", I'll ask anyway. Can I say {ngugh jIQup law' DaH jIQup puS} ? I'm almost certain our good captain would say "yes", and I'm very tempted to follow in his footsteps.. qunnoq ghogh HablI'wIjvo' vIngeHta'

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The Scythe of Saturn
by mayqel qunenoS 29 Aug '16

29 Aug '16

taghDI' Hov leng nemesis, jatlh pIqarD HoD: Qu' bav HoD yIn. 'ach DaH mu'meyvam vIchoH 'ej jIjatlh: Sun; Sun bav SuvwI' yIn. 'ej capricorn jIHmo', Sun bavbej yInwIj. jIHvaD, qul rur Sun 'ej qulvetlhDaq jaHnISbogh ghew vIrur. Hoch 'oHbej Sun'e'; Sun wIghajbe'chugh vaj pagh wIghaj. Sunmo', maQan'eghlaH Sunmo', jaghpu'maj wIQaw'laH Sunmo', Qapla' wISuqlaH Sunmo', ngoQmaj DIchavlaH Sunmo', mataHlaH Hoch 'oHbej Sun'e'. Hoch'e' ! 'ach ngeDbe' Sun.. Sun wIchIwmeH mareghnIS. Sun wIchIwmeH mabechnIS. Sun wIchIwmeH ghe'orDaq mave'nIS. latlh He tu'lu'be'. taHlaH HoSghajwI'pu' neH ; manIvchoHmeH qa'maj puj wIHoHnIS. manIvchoHmeH ghargh'a' wIrurnIS; qa'maj DIr wIpolHa'nIS. manIvchoHmeH qa'maj wISurghnIS. ma'oy'eghnISmoH.. capricorn Degh che' saturn 'ej Sun 'oS saturn. 'ach saturn bopbogh Doch potlhqu' 'oH nuq'e' ? scythe ngaS saturn Degh 'ej Hegh 'oS scythevetlh. jubbe'wI'pu' maH. maHvaD vItvam qawmoH saturn's scythe. 'ej jubbe'wI'pu' maHmo' maQapmeH Sun wIghajnIS. ngaj yIn.. ngajqu'. maHeghDI' potlhqu' wa' Doch neH.. maQapta''a' ? Qapla' wIchavta'a' ? Suto'vo'qorDaj SuqmeH vum Hoch nuv.. Suto'vo'qormaj wISuq wIneHchugh vaj Sun wIchIwnIS. nucholmo' saturn's scythe, 'ej ngugh pagh pung tu'lu'. qunnoq bel lughajnIS pujwI'pu' neH Sun 'oH yIn'e' noH 'oH yIn'e'

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Klingon Word of the Day: pItSa' chab
by qurgh＠wizage.net 29 Aug '16

29 Aug '16

Klingon Word of the Day for Friday, August 26, 2016 Klingon word: pItSa' chab Part of speech: noun Definition: pizza Source: EuroTalk Talk Now Klingon This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Klingon Word of the Day: ghIr
by qurgh＠wizage.net 29 Aug '16

29 Aug '16

Klingon Word of the Day for Monday, August 29, 2016 Klingon word: ghIr Part of speech: verb Definition: descend Source: TKD This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Klingon Word of the Day: noch
by qurgh＠wizage.net 29 Aug '16

29 Aug '16

Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, August 27, 2016 Klingon word: noch Part of speech: noun Definition: sensor Source: TKD This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Klingon Word of the Day: qa'naDa'
by qurgh＠wizage.net 28 Aug '16

28 Aug '16

Klingon Word of the Day for Sunday, August 28, 2016 Klingon word: qa'naDa' Part of speech: noun Definition: Canada Source: TalkNow - Learn Klingon!, revealed 30 September 2011 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] then/now and law'/puS
by mayqel qunenoS 28 Aug '16

28 Aug '16

lieven > You want to say "At that time, I was younger than I am now", right? HIja'. lieven: > Something in my blood tells me it's not > allowed though. yes, in mine too > I think the problem is adding a quality verb to > a verb. The rule says it's applied to nouns. I think it is illegal because in the place of {ngugh} and {DaH}, we need to have nouns instead. It is a pity though. It makes easily sense, right ? So, why dismiss it ? Let alone that we have the {'ul law'} "too much electricity" canon example, right ? So, why can't we have {ngugh jIQup law'}, meaning "then I was very young", followed by the {DaH jIQup puS} "now I'm less young" ? And now that I'm thinking of it, I believe that it is indeed correct. Think of it as two sentences, one after the other, which happen to resemble the law'/puS construction. So, unless someone proves wrong the last reasoning, I'll accept it as being correct. But wait a minute.. I just realized that in the canon example the {'ul} is a noun. ghuy' ! So it's wrong after all. qunnoq ghogh HablIwIj'vo' vIngoHta'

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Did I turn off the..
by mayqel qunenoS 27 Aug '16

27 Aug '16

bIQ tujmoHbogh jan'e' vIchu'Ha'ta''a' ? yaHwIjDaq vIjaHtaHvIS, pIj jISIv.. boSIv'a' je qunnoq ghogh HablI'wIjvo' vIngeHta'

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I have a Palantir !
by mayqel qunenoS 25 Aug '16

25 Aug '16

qaStaHvIS pa'logh, reH muchIwbogh Doch vIneH. qa'wIj 'aghbogh Doch.. ngoQvam vIchavmeH nuq vISuqnIS ? qaStaHvIS DIS law', jISIv. moQ qIjchu' vIghajnIS ! palantir vISuqnIS ! Qebmey joH much vIbejpu'DI', jItlhoj. palantirwIj vISuqmeH, weQmoQnaQ vInuDta' 'ej tagha' jungwoqDaq chabalwIj vISamta'. tagha'Ha', maghoH jIH jungwoqngan Suy 'ach tagha' maQochbe'. 'ej DaHjaj jIHDaq pawpu' palantirwIj. wanI'vammo' jIQuch ! chay' palantirwIj vIDel ? chaq tughel. 'er'Invo' megh'anDaq wejmaH loS vatlhvI' 'uj juv 'ej qIjchu' ; ghe''or rur ! SIbI', Sor Hap qal'aqDaq vIlanta' 'ej tugh vIvelmeH velwI' qIj vIlo'. tagha' Sauron vIrItlaH ! HaHaHa ! qunnoq

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Explaining aspect
by SuStel 25 Aug '16

25 Aug '16

Look, the discussion about what needs aspect and what doesn't has splintered and gotten very confusing. Let me try to start over. Aspect is that part of a verb that tells you how an action proceeds over time. It does not tell you /when/ the action took place. In English, it is impossible to use a verb without combining aspect and the time-telling information—these are English tenses, and Klingon does not have them. The *-taH*/continuous/ and *-lI'*/progressive/ aspects tell us that an action is ongoing over time. Imagine a point on a timeline. That point is the time we're talking about in the sentence, like *DaH*/now/ or *jajlo'*/[at] dawn./ The continuous and progressive aspects tell us that the action of the sentence was happening before that point on the timeline and will be happening after that point on the timeline. *DaH jIqettaH */I am running now/ >···-----------···> <-Running • <-Now Past >-------------------------------------> Future *jajlo' HoDvaD jIjatlhlI' */when I boarded the ship I was talking to the captain/ >···-----------···> <-Talking • <-Dawn Past >-------------------------------------> Future If I leave off the continuous or progressive suffix, I'm describing that explicitly does /not/ progress over time. Does it happen over and over? Does it happen sporadically? Does it happen throughout the timeline or just over a piece of it? We don't know without further context, though we do know that it's /not/ continuous or progressive over the point on the timeline. *DaH jIqet */I run now/ ??????????????????????????????????????<-Running • <-Now Past >-------------------------------------> Future *jajlo' HoDvaD jIjatlh */when I board the ship I speak to the captain/ ??????????????????????????????????????<-Talking • <-Dawn Past >-------------------------------------> Future The *-pu'* /perfective/ and *-ta'*/accomplished/ aspects tell us that the action of the sentence is completed in the performance of that action. If you again imagine the timeline with its dot as the time-context, the perfective and accomplished aspects tell us that the action /stops/ at the dot. We do /not/ know without further context whether the action was occurring before the dot, or if the action is itself merely a dot. *wa'maH cha' vatlh rep jISoppu' */I ate at noon (specifies an end to the eating)/ • <-Eating • <-Noon Past >-------------------------------------> Future Yes, eating a meal takes more than an instant, but a dot on the timeline doesn't necessarily represent an instant, just a "unit" of contextual time. Even in English, "I ate lunch" could mean I started putting food in my face, or it could mean I fed myself and moved on. In Klingon, it can only mean the latter. *tlhom vaS'a'Daq vIjaHta' */I went to the Great Hall at dusk / • <-Going • <-Dusk Past >-------------------------------------> Future In Klingon, it's also possible to complete an action that is not necessarily a dot, typically by referring to a lengthy or repetitive or habitual or general action that stops being true: *qaSpa' DaHjaj yIHmey vIHoHpu' */I have killed tribbles before today/ • • • • • • • • • •| <-Killing • <-Today Past >-------------------------------------> Future Once again, removing the aspect from these sentences makes them mean something very different: *wa'maH cha' vatlh rep jISop */I eat at noon/ (probably your regular habit of eating at noon) ??????????????????????????????????????<-Eating • <-Noon Past >-------------------------------------> Future *tlhom vaS'a'Daq vIjaH */I go to the Great Hall at dusk /(perhaps said by a guard on patrol) ?????????????????????????????????????<-Going • <-Dusk Past >-------------------------------------> Future In all this, you must remember, it doesn't matter whether an action was actually instantaneous or not. This is language, and a sentence reflects the speaker's perspective in every utterance, not an objective reality. When I say *DungluQ megh vISoppu'*/I ate lunch at noon,/ I don't mean that lunch was an instantaneous event the moment the sun was directly overhead. I'm treating the event grammatically as an atomic whole, an event seen as indivisible in the telling. I'm not thinking of lunch as an event with various parts, just as "an event," a single thing, a blip in the timeline. But the lunch obviously /did/ take time to occur, so if I become interested in the breakdown of that lunch /*in another sentence,*/ I can change my perspective. *megh vISoptaHvIS maja'chuq jIH DeghwI' je*/while I ate lunch, the helmsman and I had a conversation./ Now lunch is expanded to a continuous event in which I can place another event, the conversation. >···?????????????···> <-Conversation >···-------------···> <-Lunch Past >-------------------------------------> Future Notice that I didn't add any kind of aspect to *maja'chuq;* I simply said that conversation happened sometime during lunch. Maybe it happened a lot, maybe it happened continuously, maybe we spoke one sentence each. I don't know, because I'm only asserting the fact that conversation took place, not the shape in which it happened over time. But if I wanted to talk about the shape of the conversation, I could add aspect to that as well: *megh vISoptaHvIS maja'chuqtaH jIH DeghwI' je */while I ate lunch, the helmsman and I were having a conversation/ >···---------------···> <-Conversation >···-------------···> <-Lunch Past >-------------------------------------> Future or possibly >···---------···> <-Conversation >···-------------···> <-Lunch Past >-------------------------------------> Future *megh vISoptaHvIS maja'chuqta' jIH DeghwI' je */while I ate lunch, the helmsman and I had a conversation (probably planned)/ • <-Conversation >···-------------···> <-Lunch Past >-------------------------------------> Future Do you see how aspect is affecting the meanings of these sentences? The aspect suffixes are not optional—you must use them or not use them as required by your meaning. But you can mean to say different things about a single event. You can treat an action as an atomic whole, temporally indivisible, not talking about its parts. You can talk about the same action as a continuous stream, not starting or ending in the context of your sentence, and these non-endpoints are relevant. Or you can leave off aspect and talk about an action that is simply a truth, or a habit, or a regular occurrence but neither completed nor continuous, or hypothetical, or a bunch of other things. *tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh'a'? */Do you speak Klingon?/* * *HIja', tlhIngan Hol vIjatlh. */Yes, I speak Klingon./ (It is a general truth that I speak Klingon. I am not talking about completing an act of speaking Klingon, I am not talking about an act of continuously speaking Klingon.) *qaStaHvIS qep'a' tlhIngan Hol vIjatlh. */During the conference, I spoke Klingon. /(I'm not saying whether I spoke Klingon all the time during the conference, or only once, or occasionally.) *qaSchugh qep'a' tlhIngan Hol vIjatlh. */If the conference occurs, I will speak Klingon. /(I am describing my hypothetical speaking of Klingon, not an actual event. Klingon has no subjunctive mood; this is as close as you get to it.) *qaStaHvIS qep'a' tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhtaH. */During the conference, I was speaking Klingon. /(This might be used as a setup for something that happened /while/ I was speaking Klingon.) *qaStaHvIS qep'a' tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhpu'. */During the conference, I spoke Klingon. /(This says that there was a particular incident in which I spoke Klingon, and then the speaking in Klingon was over.) *qep'a'Daq tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhpu'. */At the conference, I spoke Klingon. I have spoken Klingon at a conference. /(How this is interpreted depends on whether your listener thinks you're talking about a specific conference or a set of conferences. In the former case it means you engaged in a completed episode of speaking Klingon at a conference. The latter means that at past conferences, you have spoken Klingon, though you're not talking about a specific instance of Klingon speech. Lots of time spent here! Does this help any? -- SuStel http://trimboli.name

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