I'm almost certain you'll tell me no, but because as the greek proverb goes "hope dies last", I'll ask anyway. Can I say {ngugh jIQup law' DaH jIQup puS} ? I'm almost certain our good captain would say "yes", and I'm very tempted to follow in his footsteps.. qunnoq ghogh HablI'wIjvo' vIngeHta'
Am 27.08.2016 um 11:31 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
Can I say
{ngugh jIQup law' DaH jIQup puS} ?
You want to say "At that time, I was younger than I am now", right? I would accept it because I understand it, but that does not mean it's correct. But I also don't know any reason why it should be not correct. Something in my blood tells me it's not allowed though. :-/ I think the problem is adding a quality verb to a verb. The rule says it's applied to nouns. ... I think I've seen this discussion somewhere already. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net
On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 5:31 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm almost certain you'll tell me no, but because as the greek proverb goes "hope dies last", I'll ask anyway.
Can I say
{ngugh jIQup law' DaH jIQup puS} ?
Nope, that's not correct. You're close, though. I'll show you how to fix it, and how to slightly redo the time references so they follow the rules. In the comparative construction A Q law' B Q puS, the A and B noun slots can be filled by pronouns. Instead of the ungrammatical phrasing {jIQup law'/puS}, make it {jIH Qup law'/puS}. We don't have good guidance on how to add adverbial and timestamp words inside the comparison. We do have examples of preceding the entire comparison with normal contextual words and phrases, so try this: {ngugh jIH Qup law' DaHjaj jIH Qup puS} "At that time, I was younger than the me of today." {ngugh} "at that time" precedes the rest of the sentence as an adverbial. {jIH} "I, me" fills the A noun slot {Qup} "be young" is the Q verb of quality {DaHjaj jIH} "today's me" or "the me of today" fills the B noun slot -- ghunchu'wI'
ghunchu'wI'
We do have examples of preceding the entire comparison with normal contextual words and phrases
I didn't know that ! thanks ! On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 10:58 PM, Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net> wrote:
On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 5:31 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm almost certain you'll tell me no, but because as the greek proverb goes "hope dies last", I'll ask anyway.
Can I say
{ngugh jIQup law' DaH jIQup puS} ?
Nope, that's not correct. You're close, though. I'll show you how to fix it, and how to slightly redo the time references so they follow the rules.
In the comparative construction A Q law' B Q puS, the A and B noun slots can be filled by pronouns. Instead of the ungrammatical phrasing {jIQup law'/puS}, make it {jIH Qup law'/puS}.
We don't have good guidance on how to add adverbial and timestamp words inside the comparison. We do have examples of preceding the entire comparison with normal contextual words and phrases, so try this:
{ngugh jIH Qup law' DaHjaj jIH Qup puS} "At that time, I was younger than the me of today."
{ngugh} "at that time" precedes the rest of the sentence as an adverbial. {jIH} "I, me" fills the A noun slot {Qup} "be young" is the Q verb of quality {DaHjaj jIH} "today's me" or "the me of today" fills the B noun slot
-- ghunchu'wI' _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
I have to ask though.. How would you define "contextual words" ? On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 12:08 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
ghunchu'wI'
We do have examples of preceding the entire comparison with normal contextual words and phrases
I didn't know that ! thanks !
On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 10:58 PM, Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net> wrote:
On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 5:31 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm almost certain you'll tell me no, but because as the greek proverb goes "hope dies last", I'll ask anyway.
Can I say
{ngugh jIQup law' DaH jIQup puS} ?
Nope, that's not correct. You're close, though. I'll show you how to fix it, and how to slightly redo the time references so they follow the rules.
In the comparative construction A Q law' B Q puS, the A and B noun slots can be filled by pronouns. Instead of the ungrammatical phrasing {jIQup law'/puS}, make it {jIH Qup law'/puS}.
We don't have good guidance on how to add adverbial and timestamp words inside the comparison. We do have examples of preceding the entire comparison with normal contextual words and phrases, so try this:
{ngugh jIH Qup law' DaHjaj jIH Qup puS} "At that time, I was younger than the me of today."
{ngugh} "at that time" precedes the rest of the sentence as an adverbial. {jIH} "I, me" fills the A noun slot {Qup} "be young" is the Q verb of quality {DaHjaj jIH} "today's me" or "the me of today" fills the B noun slot
-- ghunchu'wI' _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm almost certain you'll tell me no, but because as the greek proverb goes "hope dies last", I'll ask anyway. Can I say
{ngugh jIQup law' DaH jIQup puS} ?
ghunchu'wI':
Nope, that's not correct. You're close, though. I'll show you how to fix it, and how to slightly redo the time references so they follow the rules.
In the comparative construction A Q law' B Q puS, the A and B noun slots can be filled by pronouns.
For those who want chapter and verse, Okrand once told members of the Klingon Shakespeare Restoration Project (KSRP) that pronouns (being a subset of nouns) could indeed be used with qualities in a comparison. Thus, {SoH po' law' jIH po' puS} is correct. (Cf. HQ 4.2 p.3)
Instead of the ungrammatical phrasing {jIQup law'/puS}, make it {jIH Qup law'/puS}.
And the Q slot is always an *unconjugated* verb, or un-affixed" if you prefer. In effect, "A is more Q ("Q-ier"?) than B".
We don't have good guidance on how to add adverbial and timestamp words inside the comparison. We do have examples of preceding the entire comparison with normal contextual words and phrases,
Some more examples of using introductory phrases in the {A Q law' B Q puS} formula (marked off with <angle brackets>): <jonlu'meH> wo'maj pop tIn law' Hoch tIn puS Our Empire's highest bounty has been placed on his head. (ST5 notes) <reH latlh qabDaq> qul tuj law' Hoch tuj puS The fire is always hotter on someone else's face. PK <qIbDaq SuvwI''e'> SoH Dun law' Hoch Dun puS You would be the greatest warrior in the galaxy. ST5 <tlhutlhmeH> HIq ngeb qaq law' bIQ qaq puS Drinking fake ale is better than drinking water. TKW <noH ghoblu'DI'> yay quv law' Hoch quv puS In war there is nothing more honorable than victory. TKW <tlhIngan wo' yuQmey chovlu'chugh> Qo'noS potlh law' Hoch potlh puS The principal planet of the Klingon Empire, Qo'noS... S27 <cha' DISmo'> jIH qan law' SoH qan puS I'm two years older than you. (Lieven < Okrand, 7/25/2016) <cha' 'ujmo'> jIH woch law' SoH woch puS I'm two 'ujes taller than you. (Lieven < Okrand, 7/25/2016) In other words, first set the context then make your comparison.
so try this: {ngugh jIH Qup law' DaHjaj jIH Qup puS} "At that time, I was younger than the me of today."
{ngugh} "at that time" precedes the rest of the sentence as an adverbial. {jIH} "I, me" fills the A noun slot {Qup} "be young" is the Q verb of quality {DaHjaj jIH} "today's me" or "the me of today" fills the B noun slot
I'm not sure how this would be better than a simple: ngugh jIQup. At that time (Then) I was young(er). "Then" being an implied contrast with "now" - i.e. younger - unless you age in reverse. (Of course, being Trek, that's always a possibility!) FYI two more new examples: jIH qan law' SoH qan puS I'm older than you. (Lieven < Okrand, 7/25/2016) jIH Qup law' SoH Qup puS I'm younger than you. (Lieven < Okrand, 7/25/2016) For homework, figure out how this complicate comparison works: DujvamDaq tlhIngan nuH tu'lu'bogh pov law' Hoch pov puS 'ej DujvamDaq 'op SuvwI' tu'lu'bogh po' law' tlhIngan yo' SuvwI' law' po' puS It [IKC Pagh] has the best weapons and some of the finest warriors in the Klingon fleet. (SkyBox S7) -- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
participants (4)
-
Alan Anderson -
Lieven -
mayqel qunenoS -
Steven Boozer