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Explaining aspect
by SuStel 25 Aug '16

25 Aug '16

Look, the discussion about what needs aspect and what doesn't has splintered and gotten very confusing. Let me try to start over. Aspect is that part of a verb that tells you how an action proceeds over time. It does not tell you /when/ the action took place. In English, it is impossible to use a verb without combining aspect and the time-telling information—these are English tenses, and Klingon does not have them. The *-taH*/continuous/ and *-lI'*/progressive/ aspects tell us that an action is ongoing over time. Imagine a point on a timeline. That point is the time we're talking about in the sentence, like *DaH*/now/ or *jajlo'*/[at] dawn./ The continuous and progressive aspects tell us that the action of the sentence was happening before that point on the timeline and will be happening after that point on the timeline. *DaH jIqettaH */I am running now/ >···-----------···> <-Running • <-Now Past >-------------------------------------> Future *jajlo' HoDvaD jIjatlhlI' */when I boarded the ship I was talking to the captain/ >···-----------···> <-Talking • <-Dawn Past >-------------------------------------> Future If I leave off the continuous or progressive suffix, I'm describing that explicitly does /not/ progress over time. Does it happen over and over? Does it happen sporadically? Does it happen throughout the timeline or just over a piece of it? We don't know without further context, though we do know that it's /not/ continuous or progressive over the point on the timeline. *DaH jIqet */I run now/ ??????????????????????????????????????<-Running • <-Now Past >-------------------------------------> Future *jajlo' HoDvaD jIjatlh */when I board the ship I speak to the captain/ ??????????????????????????????????????<-Talking • <-Dawn Past >-------------------------------------> Future The *-pu'* /perfective/ and *-ta'*/accomplished/ aspects tell us that the action of the sentence is completed in the performance of that action. If you again imagine the timeline with its dot as the time-context, the perfective and accomplished aspects tell us that the action /stops/ at the dot. We do /not/ know without further context whether the action was occurring before the dot, or if the action is itself merely a dot. *wa'maH cha' vatlh rep jISoppu' */I ate at noon (specifies an end to the eating)/ • <-Eating • <-Noon Past >-------------------------------------> Future Yes, eating a meal takes more than an instant, but a dot on the timeline doesn't necessarily represent an instant, just a "unit" of contextual time. Even in English, "I ate lunch" could mean I started putting food in my face, or it could mean I fed myself and moved on. In Klingon, it can only mean the latter. *tlhom vaS'a'Daq vIjaHta' */I went to the Great Hall at dusk / • <-Going • <-Dusk Past >-------------------------------------> Future In Klingon, it's also possible to complete an action that is not necessarily a dot, typically by referring to a lengthy or repetitive or habitual or general action that stops being true: *qaSpa' DaHjaj yIHmey vIHoHpu' */I have killed tribbles before today/ • • • • • • • • • •| <-Killing • <-Today Past >-------------------------------------> Future Once again, removing the aspect from these sentences makes them mean something very different: *wa'maH cha' vatlh rep jISop */I eat at noon/ (probably your regular habit of eating at noon) ??????????????????????????????????????<-Eating • <-Noon Past >-------------------------------------> Future *tlhom vaS'a'Daq vIjaH */I go to the Great Hall at dusk /(perhaps said by a guard on patrol) ?????????????????????????????????????<-Going • <-Dusk Past >-------------------------------------> Future In all this, you must remember, it doesn't matter whether an action was actually instantaneous or not. This is language, and a sentence reflects the speaker's perspective in every utterance, not an objective reality. When I say *DungluQ megh vISoppu'*/I ate lunch at noon,/ I don't mean that lunch was an instantaneous event the moment the sun was directly overhead. I'm treating the event grammatically as an atomic whole, an event seen as indivisible in the telling. I'm not thinking of lunch as an event with various parts, just as "an event," a single thing, a blip in the timeline. But the lunch obviously /did/ take time to occur, so if I become interested in the breakdown of that lunch /*in another sentence,*/ I can change my perspective. *megh vISoptaHvIS maja'chuq jIH DeghwI' je*/while I ate lunch, the helmsman and I had a conversation./ Now lunch is expanded to a continuous event in which I can place another event, the conversation. >···?????????????···> <-Conversation >···-------------···> <-Lunch Past >-------------------------------------> Future Notice that I didn't add any kind of aspect to *maja'chuq;* I simply said that conversation happened sometime during lunch. Maybe it happened a lot, maybe it happened continuously, maybe we spoke one sentence each. I don't know, because I'm only asserting the fact that conversation took place, not the shape in which it happened over time. But if I wanted to talk about the shape of the conversation, I could add aspect to that as well: *megh vISoptaHvIS maja'chuqtaH jIH DeghwI' je */while I ate lunch, the helmsman and I were having a conversation/ >···---------------···> <-Conversation >···-------------···> <-Lunch Past >-------------------------------------> Future or possibly >···---------···> <-Conversation >···-------------···> <-Lunch Past >-------------------------------------> Future *megh vISoptaHvIS maja'chuqta' jIH DeghwI' je */while I ate lunch, the helmsman and I had a conversation (probably planned)/ • <-Conversation >···-------------···> <-Lunch Past >-------------------------------------> Future Do you see how aspect is affecting the meanings of these sentences? The aspect suffixes are not optional—you must use them or not use them as required by your meaning. But you can mean to say different things about a single event. You can treat an action as an atomic whole, temporally indivisible, not talking about its parts. You can talk about the same action as a continuous stream, not starting or ending in the context of your sentence, and these non-endpoints are relevant. Or you can leave off aspect and talk about an action that is simply a truth, or a habit, or a regular occurrence but neither completed nor continuous, or hypothetical, or a bunch of other things. *tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh'a'? */Do you speak Klingon?/* * *HIja', tlhIngan Hol vIjatlh. */Yes, I speak Klingon./ (It is a general truth that I speak Klingon. I am not talking about completing an act of speaking Klingon, I am not talking about an act of continuously speaking Klingon.) *qaStaHvIS qep'a' tlhIngan Hol vIjatlh. */During the conference, I spoke Klingon. /(I'm not saying whether I spoke Klingon all the time during the conference, or only once, or occasionally.) *qaSchugh qep'a' tlhIngan Hol vIjatlh. */If the conference occurs, I will speak Klingon. /(I am describing my hypothetical speaking of Klingon, not an actual event. Klingon has no subjunctive mood; this is as close as you get to it.) *qaStaHvIS qep'a' tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhtaH. */During the conference, I was speaking Klingon. /(This might be used as a setup for something that happened /while/ I was speaking Klingon.) *qaStaHvIS qep'a' tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhpu'. */During the conference, I spoke Klingon. /(This says that there was a particular incident in which I spoke Klingon, and then the speaking in Klingon was over.) *qep'a'Daq tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhpu'. */At the conference, I spoke Klingon. I have spoken Klingon at a conference. /(How this is interpreted depends on whether your listener thinks you're talking about a specific conference or a set of conferences. In the former case it means you engaged in a completed episode of speaking Klingon at a conference. The latter means that at past conferences, you have spoken Klingon, though you're not talking about a specific instance of Klingon speech. Lots of time spent here! Does this help any? -- SuStel http://trimboli.name

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Crescent moon
by mayqel qunenoS 25 Aug '16

25 Aug '16

I just noticed.. We use {maS'e' loQ So'be'bogh QIb}, in order to say "crescent moon". Shouldn't the {loQ} come first ? qunnoq if only I could disable chrome auto-correct

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Klingon Word of the Day: rItlh 'echlet
by qurgh＠wizage.net 25 Aug '16

25 Aug '16

Klingon Word of the Day for Thursday, August 25, 2016 Klingon word: rItlh 'echlet Part of speech: noun Definition: ink pad Source: qepHom 2015 p.19 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Saruman and Lurtz
by mayqel qunenoS 24 Aug '16

24 Aug '16

*lurtz*vaD QIjtaH *saruman* ; jatlhtaH: chay' orcs chenmoHlu'ta' ? bISov'a' ? wa'DIch elves chaHpu' 'ach quchta' HoSwI'pu' Hurgh ; joy'ta' 'ej porghchaj luQaw'ta'.. tagha' ghot rIQchu' mojpu'.. lo'laHbe'pu' chaH.. ghot luQaw'lu'chu'ta'bogh chaH. 'ach DaH povchoH chaH ! SuvmeH *uruk-hai*wIj.. 'Iv Datoy' ? ('ej ngugh jang lurtz) : Saruman !!! qunnoq

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Klingon Word of the Day: Qur
by qurgh＠wizage.net 24 Aug '16

24 Aug '16

Klingon Word of the Day for Wednesday, August 24, 2016 Klingon word: Qur Part of speech: noun Definition: structure, organization, anatomy Source: qepHom 2011, Email from Marc Okrand of 25 October 2011 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Scary youtube videos
by mayqel qunenoS 23 Aug '16

23 Aug '16

reH youtube much mughIjbogh vIbej. reH ! qatlh ? qatlh vIbej ? 'ej qaStaHvIS ram puchpa' vIlo'vIp ! juHwIjDaq qaStaHvIS ram jIyItvIp ! nIyma'pu' jay'.. youtube vIbupnISbej.. qunnoq

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Klingon Word of the Day: qIch
by qurgh＠wizage.net 23 Aug '16

23 Aug '16

Klingon Word of the Day for Tuesday, August 23, 2016 Klingon word: qIch Part of speech: verb Definition: condemn Source: TKD (102 KE, 125 EK) This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Using regional words
by mayqel qunenoS 23 Aug '16

23 Aug '16

How is someone supposed to use regional words ? He just throws them in the passage, and hopes that the reader will figure out they are regional ? qunnoq

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] When better is missing go with preferable
by mayqel qunenoS 23 Aug '16

23 Aug '16

the million dollar question (as americans say) now arises: what is the exact opposite of {qaq} ? is there one in klingon ? qunnoq ghogh HablI'wIjvo' vIngeHta' On 18 Aug 2016 9:21 p.m., "Steven Boozer" <sboozer(a)uchicago.edu> wrote: qunnoq : > Thousand times I came across the need to express in klingon the word > "better". And a thousand times I came up with nothing, because in > klingon we can't form comparatives in the way good-better-best. > Until just a minute ago, a light bulb lit inside my head! And I[] > realized that in the place of the absent "better", we can use {qaq} > instead. Problem solved ! FYI we have two sentences with {qaq} - ironically in a law'/puS comparative: tlhutlhmeH HIq ngeb qaq law' bIQ qaq puS Drinking fake ale is better than drinking water. TKW QamvIS Hegh qaq law' torvIS yIn qaq puS Better to die on our feet than live on our knees. ST6 ("Dying while standing is preferable to living while kneeling" TKW) Okrand also discussed [qaq} a bit: (st.klingon): ... the answer to the question {jarlIj qaq nuq?} ("What is your preferable month?") would presumably be a definition of your favorite month ... What you really mean to ask is something like "Of all the months, which one do you prefer?" ... You use {qaq}, "be preferable", adjectivally ({jarlIj qaq} is "your preferable month"). I think what you mean is better expressed by using the verb {maS} "prefer" with you as the subject... -- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol(a)lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

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Klingon Word of the Day: 'ut'at
by qurgh＠wizage.net 23 Aug '16

23 Aug '16

Klingon Word of the Day for Sunday, August 21, 2016 Klingon word: 'ut'at Part of speech: noun Definition: chest of drawers Source: qep'a' 23 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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