May 2019 - tlhIngan-Hol - lists.kli.org

Morskan and the unidentified “regional dialect” in PK
by Daniel Dadap 14 May '19

14 May '19

I’m planning to make some audio recordings in Morskan and am trying to do my due diligence to make sure that I’m pronouncing things as authentically as possible. With that in mind, I have some questions about Morskan: 1. Syllable-initial {tlh} is supposed to become a sound that’s described as being similar to {ghl}: is this a {gh} leading into a {l} (i.e., /ɣl/), or is it actually a voiced lateral fricative like /ɮ/? Or something else? 2. Do we have any more examples of uniquely Morskan lexicon besides {qurbuSwI'}? (The notes in boQwI' for this word suggest that it’s based on the name of an architect, but I see it just as a portmanteau of {qur buSwI'}. I suppose it could be both.) 3. (This will be very long, sorry…) Earlier when discussing differences between Morskan and Standard Klingon I mentioned an unnamed “regional dialect” from one of the audio tapes that I thought resembled Morskan. I incorrectly remembered this as being on Conversational Klingon; it turns out it was on Power Klingon. I listened to the relevant segment again to compare it to what we know about Morskan and wanted to share my observations and ask some questions. First, a transcription of the example sentences from Power Klingon (transcriptions of the regional dialect are based on how I heard the sentences; please chime in if you hear something different): Federation Standard: “Have you seen my phaser?” Regional Dialect: {PuhIchwij DalegPu} Standard Dialect: {pu'HIchwIj Daleghpu'} (This example appears to contain an error: either the sentence should be “You have seen my phaser” in Federation Standard, or it’s missing an interrogative marker {-'a'} in both the regional and standard dialects, or it’s meant to illustrate that the interrogative marker {-'a'} is not necessary in the regional dialect, and it was accidentally omitted in the standard dialect version as well) Federation Standard: “I want to eat meat.” Regional Dialect: {haDba vISoP vIne} Standard Dialect: {Ha'DIbaH vISop vIneH} Federation Standard: “What food is this?” Regional Dialect: {Sojvets 'o nuq} Standard Dialect: {Sojvetlh 'oH nuq'e'} In the examples above, {P} represents a sound that seemed like an unaspirated /p/ to me, but sounded almost like /b/ in some places, and {i} represents a higher, more fronted {I} (i.e., /i/). {g} is a stop rather than a fricative like {gh}. Next, here is what I hear for the Morskan watchman’s lines from the “Uhura speaks Klingon” scene from Star Trek VI (the transcription is based on my own hearing again, and the standard dialect reconstruction is based on my own guesswork.) {morsqi qey} - {??? ???} {Dujvets 'o nuq rin} - {Dujvetlh 'oH nuq'e' rIn} {nuqDaq roS rin} - {nuqDaq (bo)ghoS rIn} {'omey SuqHo'} - {ghewmey (tI)SuqQo'} Once again, {i} is a different sound than {I}. {nuqDaq roS} might have been something more like {nuqda groS} (where {d} is not retroflex and {g} is a voiced velar stop), and I’m not totally sure about the final glottal stop in the word I’ve transcribed as {SuqHo'}, as it wasn’t particular strongly enunciated, if it was there. The fricative {H} in {SuqHo'} sounded a little more pharyngeal than velar to me, but it was definitely non-glottal. The prefixes in parentheses are the ones that would make sense to use if the sentences weren’t clipped in addition to being in dialect. Presumably, the dialog from Star Trek VI was in Morskan, since the watchman identifies the listening post as “Morska” (according to the English subtitles). However, it has a few features that aren’t described in KGT’s description of the Morskan dialect. The “regional dialect” in PK has many similarities to Morskan, and there’s no reason to believe that it is indeed Morskan, but I’m not aware of any other dialects that had been shown on screen or described, at the time PK was recorded, besides Morskan. If it is indeed Morskan, there are some additional features that aren’t described in KGT. Features that the Star Trek VI dialect has in common with Morskan as described in KGT: * {tlh} becomes {ts} in syllable-final position * {H} is elided in syllable-final position * {-'e'} is not required on the noun following the pronoun in pronoun-copula “to be” sentences * {Q} becomes {H} in syllable-initial position Features that the PK dialect has in common with Morskan as described in KGT: * {H} becomes {h} syllable-initially * {H} is elided syllable-finally * {tlh} becomes {ts} in syllable-final position * {-'e'} is not required on the noun following the pronoun in pronoun-copula “to be” sentences Features of the ST VI dialect that don’t occur in the KGT Morskan description: * {I} is pronounced like {i} * {gh} changes to another sound syllable-initially (it changes to two different sounds in two different words; insufficient data to discern a pattern) * The diphthong {ew} sounds more like {o} Features of the PK dialect that don’t occur in the KGT Morskan description: * {p} appears to be unaspirated; other stops such as {t} may be as well (though it would be more typical of Dr. Okrand to make this another phonetic asymmetry) * Syllable-final {'} appears to be elided; in fact, Dr. Okrand makes a point to call this difference out in the tape * {I} sounds like {i} sometimes, though not consistently, so the one time it does sound this way might just be a fluke * {gh} appears to become a stop syllable-finally * It appears to be possible to elide some vowels in some circumstances (e.g. {haDba} - where did the {I} go?) Some of all of the differences that fall outside of how Morskan is described in KGT could be limited to specific words, as opposed to being broader patterns. But if we are to assume that the ST VI dialect and perhaps even the PK dialect is Morskan, do we have any other information to explain these additional differences from Standard Klingon that aren’t described in KGT? Is there any description or example of the Morskan dialect outside of KGT?

6 16

Parenthetical phrases
by mayqel qunen'oS 14 May '19

14 May '19

SuStel, could you please clarify something for me ? In the past, you've brought to my attention that I'm frequently using parenthetical phrases. At first, I hadn't realized I was actually doing it; but as soon as you told me, I realized that indeed it was something I did quite often. But there is something I don't understand.. Should parenthetical phrases be avoided ? And if yes, is it because we don't know if they are allowed, or because they can be confusing ? ~ m. qunen'oS I love you maltz !

2 3

Klingon Word of the Day: cha'nob
by Klingon Word of the Day 14 May '19

14 May '19

Klingon Word of the Day for Tuesday, May 14, 2019 Klingon word: cha'nob Part of speech: noun Definition: ritual gifts Source: KGT (213 KE, 244 EK, 255 EK) This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

2 1

Which animal do I mean ?
by mayqel qunen'oS 13 May '19

13 May '19

Soon, I will be sleeping happily, because I understood what marked/topicalized/emphatic actually mean.. And while I'm sleeping, can someone tell me which animal I mean, by the following ? {nIm tlhutlhbogh bIQ'a' ghIch tIq Ha'DIbaH} maj.. 'ej DaH jIQong.. ~ m. qunen'oS I like the "guess the animal posts"..

1 1

Noun marked with {-'e'} at the beginning of the sentence
by mayqel qunen'oS 13 May '19

13 May '19

We know, that we can place a noun marked with {-'e'} at the beginning of the sentence, the meaning then goes "as for (noun).." and the sentence continues. The classic example is: {qIbDaq SuvwI''e' SoH Dun law' Hoch Dun puS} you would be the greatest warrior in the galaxy So, now, lets forget all of the above.. I want to write "the ancient cat is an alien". The usual choice would be to write, {nov 'oH vIghro' tIQ'e'}, which actually translates to "as for the ancient cat, it's an alien". But based on example of "you would be the greatest warrior in the galaxy", seemingly/apparently, I can write too: {vIghro' tIQ'e', nov 'oH} as for the ancient cat, it's an alien As we see, whether I write {nov 'oH vIghro' tIQ'e'} or {vIghro' tIQ'e', nov 'oH}, the english meaning is exactly the same. So, if we were asked what's the actual difference between the two, we should say: Both are equally correct, and the only difference between them, is (as 'oqranD once had clarified), that the {vIghro' tIQ'e', nov 'oH} is more "shakespearean". Am I right ? ~ m. qunen'oS korriban DungDaq joqtaH ta' joqwI'

9 28

Instinct yes, but of what kind ?
by mayqel qunen'oS 13 May '19

13 May '19

We have {Duj} for "instinct/instinct". There are two kinds of "instinct": 1. The "gut feeling"; e.g. "my instincts tell me ancient cats are expensive" 2. The actual instinct; e.g. survival instinct, reproductive instinct, etc So, which of the two is {Duj} ? And if you say the second, then I guess it would be ok to write {ngaghmeH Duj} for "reproductive instinct", right ? Or would this mean "ship in order to have babies" ? Also, if you say the second, then I guess it would be also ok to write {nga'chuqmeH Duj} for "sexual instinct", right ? Or would this mean "ship for the purpose of f*** our brains out" ? ~ m. qunen'oS ghe''orDaq, 'InSepDu' remtaH latlh Hol luchenmoHlu'pu'bogh

5 6

Klingon Word of the Day: bo'Degh
by Klingon Word of the Day 13 May '19

13 May '19

Klingon Word of the Day for Monday, May 13, 2019 Klingon word: bo'Degh Part of speech: noun Definition: bird, the most general word for a bird-like creature Source: HQ:v10n4p4 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

1 0

Klingon Word of the Day: jIH
by Klingon Word of the Day 12 May '19

12 May '19

Klingon Word of the Day for Sunday, May 12, 2019 Klingon word: jIH Part of speech: pro Definition: I, me Source: TKD (90 KE, 137 EK, 141 EK) This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

1 0

Which animal do I mean ?
by mayqel qunen'oS 12 May '19

12 May '19

Which animal do I mean by saying {Supbogh puH yIQ Ha'DIbaH} ? ~ m. qunen'oS I love you maltz

3 4

parentheses or brackets in definitions of verbs
by De'vID 11 May '19

11 May '19

A couple of people have suggested that the presence (or absence) of brackets in a verb's definition is an indicator of whether it can take an object or not. I asked Marc Okrand about this, and this was his reply. --- begin quote --- There is no convention or system or pattern governing the use (or non-use) of parentheses (or brackets) in definitions (in TKD or elsewhere). The enclosed words are there just to help clarify the meanings of the words. Admittedly, sometimes things are more clear than other times and usage questions remain. --- end quote --- He also said he'll think more about this closer to the {qep'a'}. I hope that means we'll receive some more information about verb transitivity then. -- De'vID

2 1