- tlhIngan-Hol - lists.kli.org

Blind leading the blind
by mayqel qunenoS 30 Dec '16

30 Dec '16

DaHjaj po, ghItlhta' De'vID: weQmoQnaQ QIn ghom DaqDaq, tlhIngan Hol muj lo'lu'.. (Do'Ha' vIQaw'ta'mo', De'vID QIn wa'DIch vIghajbe'). anyway.. 'ej tlhIngan Hol muj lo'ta'bogh nuv mu'mey, vIlaDDI', jISIvchoH: weQmoQnaQ Daq SarDaq ghItlh jIvwI'pu', 'ej po'wI' chaH 'e' luHarba'. QIp'a'. tlhIngan Hol vIghojmeH, wa'maH loS jar vorgh tlhIngan Hol vIHaDtaH. Hoch jaj.. Hoch jaj jay'. pe'vIl yabwIjDaq tlhIngan Hol vIyuvtaH, 'ach Doch law'qu' vISov, wej 'e' vIchav. vaj, chay' ghojta', ghojmoHwI' ghajbe'lu'ba' 'ej HaDlu'ba'taHbe'. chay' po'wI' mojta'. latlhpu' ghojmoHlaH chay' 'e' maqlaH. talk about the blind leading the blind.. qunnoH jan puqloD

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mutpu' or mutmey ?
by mayqel qunenoS 30 Dec '16

30 Dec '16

if we are talking about 10 species of aliens, all capable of speech, then do we say {Hoch mutpu' vISov} or {Hoch mutmey vISov} ? qunnoH jan puqloD ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'

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Klingon Word of the Day: De' QulwI'
by qurgh＠wizage.net 30 Dec '16

30 Dec '16

Klingon Word of the Day for Thursday, December 29, 2016 Klingon word: De' QulwI' Part of speech: noun Definition: librarian Source: qepHom 2016 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] to qaStaHvIS or not to qaStaHvIS
by mayqel qunenoS 29 Dec '16

29 Dec '16

SuStel: > like a single fight during a period of three > years I guess this means something like: {qaStaHvIS wej DIS wa' may' neH wIyIn} we only had one battle during three years right ? qunnoH jan puqloD ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta' On 27 Dec 2016 7:51 pm, "SuStel" <sustel(a)trimboli.name> wrote: On 12/27/2016 12:06 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote: for quite some time now, I am wondering as to the extent one must use the {qaStaHvIS}. my understanding is, that if we are talking about an event which takes place once, there is no need for {qaStaHvIS}. example: DaSjaj matlheD (on) monday we depart on the other hand, if we talk of an event that lasts quite some time, then the qaStaHvIS is (seemingly) required. example: qaStaHvIS DaSjaj jIvum while monday is happening I work so, here is my first question: in the aforementioned example {qaStaHvIS DaSjaj jIvum}, is the {qaStaHvIS} necessary ? can't I just write {DaSjaj jIvum} ? Yes, you can just write *DaSjaj jIvum** I work on Monday.* You're not telling us about how your work was structured, just that on Monday, work happened. maj.. moving on, my next question is "if we are talking of singular events which take place multiple times, do we use the {qaStaHvIS} ?" example: on monday I kill four birds do I write {DaSjaj loS bo'Degh vIHoH} or do I write {qaStaHvIS DaSjaj loS bo'Degh vIHoH} For simple time expressions, this doesn't make a difference. *qaStaHvIS* is much more useful when referring to events, e.g. *qaStaHvIS SoQ jIQongchoH** I fell asleep during the speech,* or time periods, e.g., *qaStaHvIS wej DIS toQDuj baHwI' jIH* * I was a Bird of Prey gunner for three years. * Exactly when a phrase is a time expression or a time period is difficult for me to articulate. Longer periods get treated like time periods when the subject is events of short duration (like a single fight during a period of three years). *qaStaHvIS *has a sort of "zooming-in" effect; you are examining a subset of the entire period and saying that the period was going on before the point you're looking at and continues on after the point you're looking at. When you want to zoom in, treat it like a time period and use *qaStaHvIS.* When you just want to label when something happened, and you don't want to zoom into the context of the moment, use a time expression. -- SuStelhttp://trimboli.name _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol(a)lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] mutpu' or mutmey ?
by mayqel qunenoS 29 Dec '16

29 Dec '16

what do you mean by "it is an abstraction" ? qunnoH jan puqloD ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta' On 29 Dec 2016 4:53 pm, "SuStel" <sustel(a)trimboli.name> wrote: On 12/29/2016 9:43 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote: if we are talking about 10 species of aliens, all capable of speech, then do we say {Hoch mutpu' vISov} or {Hoch mutmey vISov} ? A *mut* is not a thing capable of using language. Its members are, but it is not. It is an abstraction. -- SuStelhttp://trimboli.name _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol(a)lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

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"It's not you, it's me"
by De'vID 28 Dec '16

28 Dec '16

I just saw this question on the language forum on the Klingon Imperial Forums message board: http://www.klingon.org/smboard/index.php?topic=2431.new#new Someone has replied with a nonsense (looks like Bing) answer. Can someone reply with a correct answer? I'm busy at the moment, but I also don't want to leave a wrong answer standing. -- De'vID

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] [Tlhingan-hol] Who are you?
by mark＠kli.org 28 Dec '16

28 Dec '16

QotmaghDaq lojmItDaq jIvem; pongwIj Sovlaw' 'avwI'. jatlh, "DaHjaj ram juHlIjDaq bIQonglaH... bIqamlaHchugh 'ej bIyItlaHchugh." wutlh lupwI'Daq jIghoS, 'ej jIbwIj joqmoH SuS. Dat ro'wIj vIjaDpu' 'e' vIqaw, 'ej quSwIjvo' jImaqpu'. SoH 'Iv??? ~mark On 12/28/2016 03:28 PM, Lieven wrote: > Hello dear friends,

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qaq ghogh HablI' pagh wab
by mayqel qunenoS 28 Dec '16

28 Dec '16

ben law', ghoghwIj HablI' wa'DIch vISuqDI', 'aqroS wab patlh vIlo'. 'ej Hoch DISmey vorgh patlhvetlh vIlo'taH.. 'agh tagha', chu'eghtaHvIS HablI', chuSqu'mo', muberghchoHmoH. 'ej qaSchoHDI' wanI'vam, pagh wab patlh lulo' nuv; muchmeyDaq 'e' vItu'. HablI'chaj lutu'meH, HablI' DuHmeyDaq {vIH'eghmoH HablI'} lulo' nuvpu'vam. vaj, HablI' DuHvam vIlo' 'e' vIwuq. vIrI'lu'taHvIS HablI' vItu'laHbe' tagha'Ha' 'e' vIpIH. 'a Do' chu'eghDI' HablI', roD vItu'laH, vabDot tawDaq jIyIttaHvIS vItu'laH. vaj, DaH, -tagha'- tamchoH HablI'wIj, 'ej Do' tammo', jorbIHbe' HutvavDu'wIj.. qunnoH jan puqloD ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta' SuvwI'pu'qoq Hol tughojmoHta'mo' Satlho'

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The conspicuous absence of -ew', -Iw' and -Iy'
by Felix Malmenbeck 28 Dec '16

28 Dec '16

A while back, I made the observation that there are no attested Klingon words with a syllable ending in -ew', -Iw' or -Iy'. This is rather peculiar, as words/syllables ending in -ew ({ghew}, {qew}, {Supghew}...), -Iw ('Iw, lIw, mIw...) and -Iy (lIy, wIy, nIyma'...) have all been used in canon. That being said, these examples are quite rare. I did a (rather sloppy) search for words containing syllables ending in -aw, -ew, -Iw, -ay, -ey, -Iy, -oy and -uy in canon, along with those same ones followed by ' and found the following. The results can be found at the end of this e-mail. The list does show a certain deficit of words with syllables ending in -ew (7) or -Iw (7, 3 of which are compounds involving 'Iw) compared with -aw (18), which may go some way towards explaining the lack of -ew' and -Iw'; perhaps they're not forbidden, but incredibly rare. Interestingly, however, -aw' was more common than -aw, so it's slightly surprising that -ew' and -Iw' are completely absent. Has there been any discussion of this? Does anybody have any idea what the reason might be? Has anybody perhaps even asked Okrand? I find it rather curious, because with Klingon's rather rigid syllable structure, I'd kind of expect a very high percentage of the possible syllables to be in use for something, and assuming that useful words are spread out fairly evenly, it's a bit surprising that we haven't seen any. I have noticed that the vowels 'at and 'ot appear to be the most frequently occuring in the language, followed by 'et and 'ut, and then 'It in last place. Could it be that some sort of unwritten rule makes frequently used words more likely to contain these popular vowels, and thus less likely to contain these absent syllable endings? Might there be a wealth of highly esoteric terminology using -ew' and -Iw' and -Iy' out there that only Klingon dweebs use? It's worth noting that TKD only contained one word ending in -Irgh, namely {chIrgh}, and it wasn't until KGT that we got our second one, {SIrgh}. The third one arrived ... four weeks ago, namely the word {'Irgh}, meaning "bully" (verb): http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/PopCultureHeroCoalition So, it does seem quite possible that these words are still out there, and we just haven't seen them yet. == Counting syllables == -aw: 18 words + 1 Terran location name -ew: 7 words + {qewwI'}* + 1 Terran location name -Iw: 7 words** + 1 Terran location name -ow: 0 (see TKD p.17) -uw: 0 (see TKD p.17) -aw': 23 + 1 verb suffix -ew': 0 -Iw': 0 -ow': 0 (forbidden?) -uw': 0 (forbidden?) -ay: 22 words*** + qaywI'** + 20 letter names + 1 Terran location name -ey: 17 words + 2 noun suffixes + 4 Klingon names + 1 Terran location name -Iy: 7 words + 1 Klingon location name + 5 Terran location names (including rIymuS) -oy: 7 words + 1 noun suffix -uy: 11 words -ay': 31 words† + Qay'wI'** + 1 Klingon(?) location name (tay'ghoqor) + 2 Terran location names -ey': 10 words -Iy': 0 -oy': 16 words†† + 1 non-Klingon(?) location name (Doy'yuS) -uy': 10 words Here I have treated spaceless or irregular compound words (such as {qawHaq} pr {paw'aD}) as their own words, but not words that can be formed regularly using suffixes (such as {qawmoH}). When two words are related homonyms (i.e. the noun {chaw'} and the verb {chaw'}), both are counted. I did not count words such as {DoyIchlan}, which I read as Do-yIch-lan, rather than Doy-Ich-lan, so as not to have any syllables starting with vowels. Words like {quy'Ip}, where the apostrophe is immediately followed a vowel, were counted to the non-apostrophe tally (-uy in this case), for the same reason. Transcriptions of Terran non-location names (such as {jemS tIy qIrq}, {Day joH} and {'entepray'}) have been ignored because I'm lazy. *I wasn't sure if I should treat {qewwI'}, {qaywI'} and {Qay'wI'} as their own words, as they are regularly derived terms (qew + -wI'), but with fairly specific meanings which are not *quite* obvious from this analysis. **Of these 7 words, 3 clearly involve the root {'Iw}: {'Iw}, {'Iwghargh} and {ro'qegh'Iwchab}. I felt this was worth noting. ***Of these 21 words, 6 clearly involve the root {tay} ("rite, ceremony, ritual"): {tay}, {chontay}, {Heghtay}, {muvtay}, {nentay}, {ruStay}. If we don't count these or letter names, then -ey is more common than -ay (and, in terms of usage frequency, it almost certainly is anyway, thanks to -mey and to some degree -Hey). †Of these 31 words, 5 are battle-related and include the syllable {may'}: {may'}, {DIvI'may'Duj}, {may'Duj}, {may'luch} and {may'morgh} ††Of these 16 words, 4 are pain-related and include the syllable {'oy'}: {'oy} (noun), {'oy'} (verb) and {'oy'naQ}.

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Klingon Word of the Day: la''a'
by qurgh＠wizage.net 28 Dec '16

28 Dec '16

Klingon Word of the Day for Wednesday, December 28, 2016 Klingon word: la''a' Part of speech: noun Definition: commandant Source: ADD This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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