June 2022 - tlhIngan-Hol

Klingon Word of the Day: toqwIn
by Klingon Word of the Day 24 Jun '22

24 Jun '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Friday, June 24, 2022 Klingon word: toqwIn Part of speech: noun Definition: (rubber) stamp Source: qepHom 2015 p.19 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Klingon Word of the Day: nem
by Klingon Word of the Day 23 Jun '22

23 Jun '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Thursday, June 23, 2022 Klingon word: nem Part of speech: noun Definition: years from now Source: TKD (96 KE, 161 EK) This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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pronoun to use for mixed groups still an open question
by De'vID 23 Jun '22

23 Jun '22

There was a question about which pronoun {bIH} or {chaH} to use when referring to a mixed group containing both beings capable of language and other things. The question is still unresolved. TKD (p. 51) says: <The pronoun {chaH} "they" is used when it refers to a group of beings capable of using language; otherwise, {bIH} "they" is used.> In the 1st edition of the paq'batlh, there were two places where a pronoun referred to a mixed group. One of these ({wa' Dol bIH qa''e' porgh'e' je}) has been changed entirely. There's a second passage in which {chaH} apparently refers to a mixed group, which survived with some changes. Anticipating that readers might draw the wrong conclusion, Dr. Okrand offered an analysis of the passage. (His reference to "the earlier version" is a draft in which {chaH} was replaced with {Hoch}, which he later decided against.) The text: {Hoch tuqmey / Hoch puq poHmey / Hoch loDpu' be'pu' je / HarghmeH yeq chaH / molor HI''a' luSuv / lughIjlu'be' 'ej pujHa' 'e' lu'aghmeH Suv} "All tribes, / All ages, / All sexes, / United to do battle together! / Against the tyrant Molor! / Against fear and against weakness!" MO's comments: Clearly the subject of {Suv} in lines 5 and 6 (and the subject of {'agh} in line 6) are Kahless's warriors. The way the poetry works (and it's poetry, not standard prose) can be, I think, broken up into three bits: (1) A shout-out chant to all the tribes, ages, and sexes. What's coming involves everyone! No one is left out! (2) They unite to do battle! "They" and {chaH} here refer to the battlers (Kahless's warriors, including both men and women according to the Klingon text), not to tribes/ages. Tribes don't fight. Ages don't fight. People (warriors) do. (Even in the earlier version {Hoch} meant "everyone" — all the fighters — not "everything," though the Klingon word {Hoch} itself doesn't make that distinction.) (3) They battle Molor! They battle to show they're not afraid or weak! The unspoken "they" in the English and the unspoken {chaH} in the Klingon, again, refer to the warriors. All of this, of course, sheds no light on which third-person plural pronoun to use when referring to mixed groups. Looking at it now, I see the short description of {chaH} and {bIH} in TKD can be read in a couple of different ways regarding mixed groups. It doesn't address clearly how to handle this situation. (end of message) What Dr. Okrand is saying here is that the {chaH} in line 4 doesn't refer to everyone/everything listed in lines 1-3. Of course, Klingon can do metonymy and synecdoche, so something like the above can occur outside of poetry, too. It's like when you write in English, "The family went shopping. They bought..." (The pronoun for "family" is "it", but "they" refers to the members of the family.) -- De'vID

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Klingon Word of the Day: DujtlhuQ
by Klingon Word of the Day 22 Jun '22

22 Jun '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, June 18, 2022 Klingon word: DujtlhuQ Part of speech: noun Definition: star shaped polygon (not a star in space) Source: Marc Okrand at European qepHom 1/25/2014 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Klingon Word of the Day: babton
by Klingon Word of the Day 22 Jun '22

22 Jun '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Wednesday, June 22, 2022 Klingon word: babton Part of speech: noun Definition: pepper (capsicum) Source: qep'a' 28 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Klingon Word of the Day: len
by Klingon Word of the Day 21 Jun '22

21 Jun '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Tuesday, June 21, 2022 Klingon word: len Part of speech: noun Definition: recess, break Source: TKD-A (182 KE, 186 EK, 190 EK) This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Klingon Word of the Day: qarpal
by Klingon Word of the Day 21 Jun '22

21 Jun '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Monday, June 20, 2022 Klingon word: qarpal Part of speech: noun Definition: trapezoid Source: qep'a' 27 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Klingon Word of the Day: QuS
by Klingon Word of the Day 21 Jun '22

21 Jun '22

Klingon Word of the Day for Sunday, June 19, 2022 Klingon word: QuS Part of speech: verb Definition: conspire Source: TKD (105 KE, 126 EK) This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh(a)kli.org)

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Re: [tlhIngan Hol] some info on {jatlh} and {jang}
by D qunen'oS 21 Jun '22

21 Jun '22

jIH: > since the only object {jang} can take is a/the person hearing the reply SuStel: > Did Okrand say the only object jang can take is the person hearing the reply? > If so, I missed that. I can imagine sentences like bey vIjang I answer the wail or > pum vIjang I answer the accusation, no prefix trick. De'vID: > Why do you believe that {jang} can only take a person as the object? > Maybe it can take {QIn} or {ghum} or {qaD} or {bom} or {mu'} as objects. I was obviously under the erroneous impression that the only object {jang} can take is the person to who someone {jang}s. I don't know why or how I came to believe so, but now I realize that I was wrong all along. -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ

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some info on {jatlh} and {jang}
by De'vID 17 Jun '22

17 Jun '22

There were a couple of lines that involved verbs of speaking in the paq'batlh. Instead of snipping out parts of various discussions from all over the place, I'm just going to summarise the conclusions. Besides the "verbs of speech" lines in the paq'batlh, I provided Dr. Okrand with the interview about verbs of speech in HolQeD 7:4, the msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand message dated 1997-06-29 which had more information on the grammar of {jatlh}, and pointed out the parts of TKD dealing with {jatlh}, {-lu'}, and {net}. In summary: * The thing that is said just goes next to the sentence with {jatlh} (or the verb of speech), with no {'e'}. (We already know this. I'm just establishing context for what follows.) * {jatlhlu'} (with no {'e'}) is correct when the speaker is unknown, indefinite, and/or general (and not {net jatlh}). Quote: <{jatlhlu'} could be translated "it is said," "so they say," "as one says," and so on.> * MO is still unclear on "indirect quotation". Quote: <The interview you cite [in HolQeD] is confusing because the phrase "indirect quotation" is used sloppily (by me).> * {jang} is a verb of speech in the paq'batlh. This is consistent with its usage in Power Klingon (1993), but contradicts an interview in HolQeD 7:4 (1998). {jang; jatlh [blah]} is not wrong, just a bit redundant. (MO has acknowledged that, in those days, he didn't have a way to easily access or search everything he's previously written and so sometimes contradicts himself. He expresses his appreciation for Klingonists who have made all of his previous writings easily searchable.) Clarifications to the msn post in more detail: * In the msn message, MO made repeated references to the first- and second-person without stating what happens in the third-person case. Quoting from the post: <It is not by any means a complete discussion of the several topics mentioned and I may have phrased things not as clearly as they might be phrased.> * To clarify, what he wrote also applies to the third-person when it makes sense and the meaning is clear in context, which might depend on the verb. For example, it would be impossible to use the prefix trick on a sentence like "I speak Klingon to him" (because {vI-} already indicates the direct object, {tlhIngan Hol} "Klingon", and thus cannot indicate the indirect object, {ghaH} "him"). But {[ghaH] lujang} "they answer him" is fine in the paq'batlh, because the only possible object in context is Molor. * In particular: <When the indirect object (in this case, the hearer) is first or second person, the pronominal prefix which normally indicates first or second person object may be used.> This also applies to the third-person, if there's no possibility of confusion (e.g., if nothing else but Molor could've been the object of {lujang}). * Also: <The verb {jatlh} can also be used when giving direct quotations... If the speaker is first or second person, the pronominal prefix indicating "no object" is used>. Again, this applies to the third person as well. {tlhIngan Hol lujatlh} means "they speak Klingon", whereas {tlhIngan Hol jatlh [chaH]} means "they say, 'Klingon language'". In the singular case, {tlhIngan Hol jatlh [ghaH]}, the prefix does not distinguish between "she speaks Klingon" and "she says, 'Klingon language'" (but normally it would be understood as the first). * The reason he didn't mention the third-person case in the post was because of these complications (which don't exist for first- and second-person) and he had wanted to keep the post short. -- De'vID

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