Five Little Bunnies by Dan Yaccarino (Children's Book)
Hi all, As I mentioned I would do, I've tried to translate a short and very simple story, Dan Yaccarino's "Five Little Bunnies." I'd appreciate your feedback. 1. Five little bunies went hippity hop. qettaH vagh Qa'Hom. mI'. Sup. 2. The first bunny said, "We're here! Let's stop! {mapawta’! mamevjaj!} jatlh Qa'Hom wa'DIch. 3. Let's hide Easter eggs. We all know how. We need to hurry. Let's start right now!" {QImmey nguv wISo'jaj. mIw wISovchu’ maH! wImoDnIS. DaH maruchjaj!} 4. The second bunny said, "We can hide a lot. I'll hide some in this flower pot." {QIm law' wISo'laH. chorvamDaq 'op vISo' jIH.} jatlh Qa'Hom cha'DIch. 5. The third bunny said, "The kids will find striped ones, spotted ones--every kind." {wov 'op 'ej Hurgh 'op. Segh law' SamlaH puqpu'.} jatlh Qa'Hom wejDIch. 6. The fourth bunny said, "Now the fun can start." {DaH tughlaH lop.} jatlh Qa'Hom loSDIch. 7. The fifth bunny said, "I love this part!" {Qujvam vImaSqu'!} jatlh Qa'Hom vaghDIch. 8. The kids found the Easter eggs one by one. The little bunnies said, "Our job is done!" Hoch QIm nguv Sam puqpu'. {pItlh! rIn Qu'maj,} jatlh Hoch Qa'Hom. 9. The kids ate the eggs and played all day. QImmey yIr puqpu'. jaj naQ reHqu'. 10. Then the five little bunnies hippity hopped away! vaj qetqa' vagh Qa'Hom. mI'qa'! Supqa'! -- Socialist Alternative <http://www.socialistalternative.org/> Klingon Language Institute <http://www.kli.org/>
Oh -- and Qa'Hom was a more or less arbitrary decision for "bunny." Any better suggestions? jh -- Socialist Alternative <http://www.socialistalternative.org/> Klingon Language Institute <http://www.kli.org/> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:19 AM, John R. Harness <cartweel@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
As I mentioned I would do, I've tried to translate a short and very simple story, Dan Yaccarino's "Five Little Bunnies." I'd appreciate your feedback.
1. Five little bunies went hippity hop.
qettaH vagh Qa'Hom. mI'. Sup.
2. The first bunny said, "We're here! Let's stop!
{mapawta’! mamevjaj!} jatlh Qa'Hom wa'DIch.
3. Let's hide Easter eggs. We all know how. We need to hurry. Let's start right now!"
{QImmey nguv wISo'jaj. mIw wISovchu’ maH! wImoDnIS. DaH maruchjaj!}
4. The second bunny said, "We can hide a lot. I'll hide some in this flower pot."
{QIm law' wISo'laH. chorvamDaq 'op vISo' jIH.} jatlh Qa'Hom cha'DIch.
5. The third bunny said, "The kids will find striped ones, spotted ones--every kind."
{wov 'op 'ej Hurgh 'op. Segh law' SamlaH puqpu'.} jatlh Qa'Hom wejDIch.
6. The fourth bunny said, "Now the fun can start."
{DaH tughlaH lop.} jatlh Qa'Hom loSDIch.
7. The fifth bunny said, "I love this part!"
{Qujvam vImaSqu'!} jatlh Qa'Hom vaghDIch.
8. The kids found the Easter eggs one by one. The little bunnies said, "Our job is done!"
Hoch QIm nguv Sam puqpu'. {pItlh! rIn Qu'maj,} jatlh Hoch Qa'Hom.
9. The kids ate the eggs and played all day.
QImmey yIr puqpu'. jaj naQ reHqu'.
10. Then the five little bunnies hippity hopped away! vaj qetqa' vagh Qa'Hom. mI'qa'! Supqa'!
--
Socialist Alternative <http://www.socialistalternative.org/> Klingon Language Institute <http://www.kli.org/>
I like it, but I have some questions :
{QIm law' wISo'laH. chorvamDaq 'op vISo' jIH} {wov 'op 'ej Hurgh 'op. Segh law' SamlaH puqpu'.
Can we use the {'op} on its own i.e. without a noun following it ?
The kids found the Easter eggs one by one. The little bunnies said, "Our job is done!" {Hoch QIm nguv Sam puqpu'. {pItlh! rIn Qu'maj,} jatlh Hoch Qa'Hom}
Perhaps the "one by one" concept is better expressed by the use of {ngIq}, although don't take me too seriously on this one, since I'm still having trouble understanding the [ngIq}. Also since the "founding" of the eggs is a completed action which happened on purpose, I would use the {-ta'}
The kids ate the eggs and played all day. {QImmey yIr puqpu'. jaj naQ reHqu'}
The english goes "ate the eggs", but the klingon says "gathered". Also since the "playing" took place all day, I think we could use {qaStaHvIS jaj}. As far as the {jaj naQ} for "all day" is concerned, I remember using it myself a couple of times in the past. I remember though we had discussed, that it is better to say {jaj Hoch}. Anyway, these are my comments/suggestions ! lutvam vIparHa' ! reH bunny lutmey vIparHa' ! jIHvaD, naH jajmeywIj qawmoH lutmeyvam.. ngugh jIQuch 'ej jIchun.. mop Hurgh On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:19 AM, John R. Harness <cartweel@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh -- and Qa'Hom was a more or less arbitrary decision for "bunny." Any better suggestions?
jh
--
Socialist Alternative Klingon Language Institute
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:19 AM, John R. Harness <cartweel@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
As I mentioned I would do, I've tried to translate a short and very simple story, Dan Yaccarino's "Five Little Bunnies." I'd appreciate your feedback.
1. Five little bunies went hippity hop.
qettaH vagh Qa'Hom. mI'. Sup.
2. The first bunny said, "We're here! Let's stop!
{mapawta’! mamevjaj!} jatlh Qa'Hom wa'DIch.
3. Let's hide Easter eggs. We all know how. We need to hurry. Let's start right now!"
{QImmey nguv wISo'jaj. mIw wISovchu’ maH! wImoDnIS. DaH maruchjaj!}
4. The second bunny said, "We can hide a lot. I'll hide some in this flower pot."
{QIm law' wISo'laH. chorvamDaq 'op vISo' jIH.} jatlh Qa'Hom cha'DIch.
5. The third bunny said, "The kids will find striped ones, spotted ones--every kind."
{wov 'op 'ej Hurgh 'op. Segh law' SamlaH puqpu'.} jatlh Qa'Hom wejDIch.
6. The fourth bunny said, "Now the fun can start."
{DaH tughlaH lop.} jatlh Qa'Hom loSDIch.
7. The fifth bunny said, "I love this part!"
{Qujvam vImaSqu'!} jatlh Qa'Hom vaghDIch.
8. The kids found the Easter eggs one by one. The little bunnies said, "Our job is done!"
Hoch QIm nguv Sam puqpu'. {pItlh! rIn Qu'maj,} jatlh Hoch Qa'Hom.
9. The kids ate the eggs and played all day.
QImmey yIr puqpu'. jaj naQ reHqu'.
10. Then the five little bunnies hippity hopped away!
vaj qetqa' vagh Qa'Hom. mI'qa'! Supqa'!
--
Socialist Alternative Klingon Language Institute
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 6 July 2016 at 08:33, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
I like it, but I have some questions :
{QIm law' wISo'laH. chorvamDaq 'op vISo' jIH} {wov 'op 'ej Hurgh 'op. Segh law' SamlaH puqpu'.
Can we use the {'op} on its own i.e. without a noun following it ?
HIja'.
The kids found the Easter eggs one by one. The little bunnies said, "Our job is done!" {Hoch QIm nguv Sam puqpu'. {pItlh! rIn Qu'maj,} jatlh Hoch Qa'Hom}
Perhaps the "one by one" concept is better expressed by the use of {ngIq}, although don't take me too seriously on this one, since I'm still having trouble understanding the [ngIq}.
Dachupchu'.
Also since the "founding" of the eggs is a completed action which happened on purpose, I would use the {-ta'}
The kids ate the eggs and played all day. {QImmey yIr puqpu'. jaj naQ reHqu'}
The english goes "ate the eggs", but the klingon says "gathered". Also since the "playing" took place all day, I think we could use {qaStaHvIS jaj}.
I would suggest {pem} instead of {jaj}, unless you really meant that they played for all day and all night. English is stupid in that "day" means both "daytime" and "day and night". Klingon wisely distinguishes these two time periods. Did the children play all day and all night? If not, then {jaj} is not appropriate. -- De'vID
jIH:
Can we use the {'op} on its own i.e. without a noun following it ? De'vID: HIja'.
thanks for telling me ! I must have gotten the idea that the {'op} is only to be used with a noun following it, since most of the times we say things like {'op ret}, {'op pIq} etc.. De'vID:
I would suggest {pem} instead of {jaj}, unless you really meant that they played for all day and all night.
oh yes, this is better ! I had never actually realized that this distinction actually existed in klingon. I had the impression that {jaj} meant day and night as well. mIv Hurgh On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 10:44 AM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 6 July 2016 at 08:33, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
I like it, but I have some questions :
{QIm law' wISo'laH. chorvamDaq 'op vISo' jIH} {wov 'op 'ej Hurgh 'op. Segh law' SamlaH puqpu'.
Can we use the {'op} on its own i.e. without a noun following it ?
HIja'.
The kids found the Easter eggs one by one. The little bunnies said, "Our job is done!" {Hoch QIm nguv Sam puqpu'. {pItlh! rIn Qu'maj,} jatlh Hoch Qa'Hom}
Perhaps the "one by one" concept is better expressed by the use of {ngIq}, although don't take me too seriously on this one, since I'm still having trouble understanding the [ngIq}.
Dachupchu'.
Also since the "founding" of the eggs is a completed action which happened on purpose, I would use the {-ta'}
The kids ate the eggs and played all day. {QImmey yIr puqpu'. jaj naQ reHqu'}
The english goes "ate the eggs", but the klingon says "gathered". Also since the "playing" took place all day, I think we could use {qaStaHvIS jaj}.
I would suggest {pem} instead of {jaj}, unless you really meant that they played for all day and all night.
English is stupid in that "day" means both "daytime" and "day and night". Klingon wisely distinguishes these two time periods. Did the children play all day and all night? If not, then {jaj} is not appropriate.
-- De'vID _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
mayqel qunenoS :
Can we use the {'op} on its own i.e. without a noun following it ?
De'vID:
HIja'.
thanks for telling me ! I must have gotten the idea that the {'op} is only to be used with a noun following it, since most of the times we say things like {'op ret}, {'op pIq} etc..
{'op} "some" and {HochHom} "most" seem to work like {Hoch} "everyone, everything, all". They are nouns and presumably can be used by themselves: E.g. may' ngeb tIv Hoch Everyone enjoys a mock battle. CK Hoch vor Dargh wIb Sour tea cures everything. CK Hoch DaSopbe'chugh batlh bIHeghbe' Eat everything or you will die without honor. PK De'vID:
I would suggest {pem} instead of {jaj}, unless you really meant that they played for all day and all night.
oh yes, this is better ! I had never actually realized that this distinction actually existed in klingon. I had the impression that {jaj} meant day and night as well.
(KGT 121): The word used for days, {pemmey}, is the plural form of {pem} (day, daytime), a word referring to the part of the day when it is light out (as opposed to ram [night]). Another word, {jaj} (day) refers to the full period from dawn to dawn. (KGT 206-7): Thus, Federation Standard uses the single word "day" to refer to both a period of 24 Earth hours (generally reckoned from midnight to midnight) and to that part of the 24-hour period which is light (day as opposed to night). In Klingon, there are two distinct terms: {jaj} is the period from dawn to dawn; {pem} is that part of a {jaj} which is light (as opposed to {ram} [night]). Although Federation Standard also makes use of the locutions "daytime" and "nighttime", when a speaker of Federation Standard is counting periods of daytime, only "day" is used. Thus, "three days", with no further context, is ambiguous, for it can refer to three 24-hour periods (as in "They wandered for three days") or three periods of daylight (as in "They wandered for three days and three nights"). In Klingon, {wej jajmey} means only three stretches from dawn to dawn; {wej pemmey} means three periods of daylight (as opposed to {wej rammey} [three nights]). -- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:19 AM, John R. Harness <cartweel@gmail.com> wrote:
2. The first bunny said, "We're here! Let's stop! {mapawta’! mamevjaj!} jatlh Qa'Hom wa'DIch.
I'm not sure {-jaj} is the right tool for this kind of "Let's do it" meaning. I'd simply say {mamev}, but it could just be a matter of style.
4. The second bunny said, "We can hide a lot. I'll hide some in this flower pot." {QIm law' wISo'laH. chorvamDaq 'op vISo' jIH.} jatlh Qa'Hom cha'DIch.
{QIm law'} is plural, so the prefix {DI-} is called for. I managed to read the Klingon first without interference from the English, and I thought the second bunny was suggesting that some of the eggs should be *eaten* in order to hide them in his belly. The longer regional phrase {chor bargh} for "ceramic pot" might work, though I would prefer not to extend the meaning of {bargh} beyond a cooking vessel.
6. The fourth bunny said, "Now the fun can start." {DaH tughlaH lop.} jatlh Qa'Hom loSDIch.
That's obviously a typo for {taghlaH}.
8. The kids found the Easter eggs one by one. The little bunnies said, "Our job is done!" Hoch QIm nguv Sam puqpu'. {pItlh! rIn Qu'maj,} jatlh Hoch Qa'Hom.
I agree with the suggestion to use {ngIq} instead of {Hoch}. The "one by one" idea makes it perfect. Are {ngIq QIm nguv} and {Hoch QIm nuv} singular? The prefix {lu-} would be called for if so.
9. The kids ate the eggs and played all day. QImmey yIr puqpu'. jaj naQ reHqu'.
I would interpret the English as meaning "they ate-and-played all day".
10. Then the five little bunnies hippity hopped away! vaj qetqa' vagh Qa'Hom. mI'qa'! Supqa'!
This meaning of "then" is better carried by the word {ghIq}. The "away" idea isn't reflected in the Klingon. -- ghunchu'wI'
'arHa':
The first bunny said, "We're here! Let's stop! {mapawta’! mamevjaj!} jatlh Qa'Hom wa'DIch. ghunchu'wI': I'm not sure {-jaj} is the right tool for this kind of "Let's do it" meaning. I'd simply say {mamev}, but it could just be a matter of style.
As a matter of fact, when I read 'arHa's original post, I thought of commenting on this one but I didn't, because I wasn't 100% sure. ghunchu'wI''s comment verifies my understanding of {-jaj} ; it is to be used only in a manner of expressing a wish whether this is a stand-alone wish, or it is a wish spoken during a toast. I don't think {-jaj} can be used in order to express "are we allowed to (whatever) or are we able to (whatever)". Of course I could be wrong, and in that case, then please do tell me. mop Hurgh qunnoq On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 7:50 PM, Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net> wrote:
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:19 AM, John R. Harness <cartweel@gmail.com> wrote:
2. The first bunny said, "We're here! Let's stop! {mapawta’! mamevjaj!} jatlh Qa'Hom wa'DIch.
I'm not sure {-jaj} is the right tool for this kind of "Let's do it" meaning. I'd simply say {mamev}, but it could just be a matter of style.
4. The second bunny said, "We can hide a lot. I'll hide some in this flower pot." {QIm law' wISo'laH. chorvamDaq 'op vISo' jIH.} jatlh Qa'Hom cha'DIch.
{QIm law'} is plural, so the prefix {DI-} is called for.
I managed to read the Klingon first without interference from the English, and I thought the second bunny was suggesting that some of the eggs should be *eaten* in order to hide them in his belly. The longer regional phrase {chor bargh} for "ceramic pot" might work, though I would prefer not to extend the meaning of {bargh} beyond a cooking vessel.
6. The fourth bunny said, "Now the fun can start." {DaH tughlaH lop.} jatlh Qa'Hom loSDIch.
That's obviously a typo for {taghlaH}.
8. The kids found the Easter eggs one by one. The little bunnies said, "Our job is done!" Hoch QIm nguv Sam puqpu'. {pItlh! rIn Qu'maj,} jatlh Hoch Qa'Hom.
I agree with the suggestion to use {ngIq} instead of {Hoch}. The "one by one" idea makes it perfect.
Are {ngIq QIm nguv} and {Hoch QIm nuv} singular? The prefix {lu-} would be called for if so.
9. The kids ate the eggs and played all day. QImmey yIr puqpu'. jaj naQ reHqu'.
I would interpret the English as meaning "they ate-and-played all day".
10. Then the five little bunnies hippity hopped away! vaj qetqa' vagh Qa'Hom. mI'qa'! Supqa'!
This meaning of "then" is better carried by the word {ghIq}.
The "away" idea isn't reflected in the Klingon.
-- ghunchu'wI' _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 7/6/2016 1:14 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
'arHa':
The first bunny said, "We're here! Let's stop! {mapawta’! mamevjaj!} jatlh Qa'Hom wa'DIch. ghunchu'wI': I'm not sure {-jaj} is the right tool for this kind of "Let's do it" meaning. I'd simply say {mamev}, but it could just be a matter of style. As a matter of fact, when I read 'arHa's original post, I thought of commenting on this one but I didn't, because I wasn't 100% sure.
ghunchu'wI''s comment verifies my understanding of {-jaj} ; it is to be used only in a manner of expressing a wish whether this is a stand-alone wish, or it is a wish spoken during a toast.
I don't think {-jaj} can be used in order to express "are we allowed to (whatever) or are we able to (whatever)".
The English original /is/ expressing a wish: "I wish for us to stop." It is not talking about being able or permitted to do something. *mamevjaj* /I wish for us to stop; let's stop./ -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
'arHa':
The first bunny said, "We're here! Let's stop! {mapawta’! mamevjaj!} jatlh Qa'Hom wa'DIch.
ghunchu'wI':
I'm not sure {-jaj} is the right tool for this kind of "Let's do it" meaning. I'd simply say {mamev}, but it could just be a matter of style.
qunnoq:
As a matter of fact, when I read 'arHa's original post, I thought of commenting on this one but I didn't, because I wasn't 100% sure.
ghunchu'wI''s comment verifies my understanding of {-jaj} ; it is to be used only in a manner of expressing a wish whether this is a stand-alone wish, or it is a wish spoken during a toast.
I don't think {-jaj} can be used in order to express "are we allowed to (whatever) or are we able to (whatever)".
Here's a quick dump of what I have in my notes on {-jaj} "may, can, let" (V9: syntactic marker): jaghpu'lI' DaghIjjaj May you scare your enemies! TKD tlhonchaj chIljaj May they lose their nostrils! TKD 'IwlIj jachjaj May your blood scream! TKD taHjaj boq. [untranslated] (TKD 173) maja'chuqjaj? Can we talk? PK reH tlhIngan wo' taHjaj May the Klingon Empire continue forever! PK (i.e. Long live the Klingon Empire!) reH tlhInganpu' taHjaj Klingons forever! PK bInajtaHvIS qeylIS Daghomjaj May you encounter Kahless in your dreams! PK bItuHpa' bIHeghjaj Death before shame. PK 'Iw bIQtIqDaq bIlengjaj May you travel the River of Blood! PK 'oy' DaSIQjaj May you endure the pain! PK QuvlIjDaq yIH tu'be'lu'jaj May your coordinates be free of tribbles! PK reH HIvje'lIjDaq 'Iwghargh Datu'jaj May you always find a bloodworm in your glass! PK jagh lucharghlu'ta'bogh HuH ghopDu'lIj lungaSjaj May the bile of the vanquished fill your hands! PK jaghpu'lI' DaghIjjaj May you scare your enemies! PK bISuvtaHvIS bIHeghjaj May you die in battle! PK jaghmeylI' DaghIjjaj, qetjaj jaghmeylI' May you scare your enemies, may your enemies run). TKW batlh bIHeghjaj May you die well! TKW Dajonlu'pa' bIHeghjaj May you die before you are captured. TKW bItuHpa' bIHeghjaj May you die before you are shamed. KCD/STK SoSwI' vavwI' je quvmoHjaj paqvam [untranslated KGT dedication] KGT chotwI' DaSamjaj May you find the murderer. KGT jejjaj tajlIj May your knife be sharp. KGT tajlIj jejjaj May your knife be sharp. (toast) KGT wo' DevtaHjaj ghawran May Gowron continue to lead the empire. KGT (sic!) [verbs with -jaj don't take Type 7 suffixes] wo' ghawran DevtaHjaj May Gowron continue to lead the Empire (toast) KGT lenglIj lutebjaj lengwIjvaD bel rap, Sov rap, ngoQ rap je Danobpu'bogh May your journey be filled with the same joy, wisdom, and purpose you have given mine. (Frasier) vaDjaj yaDDu'lIj may your toes be flexible ("apparently a wish for good fortune, or something of the sort.") (HQ 10.2:11) reH batlh SuvtaHjaj chaH Let endless battle and honor await them! PB tayvam tIQ wIlopchoHjaj Let us commence this ancient rite. PB yab matlh muvchuqghach Sorgh vay' 'e' vIbotjaj. Let me not to the marriage of true minds admit impediments. (Sonnet 116) (TKD 175f): This suffix is used to express a desire or wish on the part of the speaker that something take place in the future. When it is used, there is never a Type 7 aspect suffix. {-jaj} is often translated with "may" or "let", and it is particularly useful when placing a curse or making a toast. (KGT 26): In a divergence from the majority of Klingon dialects, the speakers of Sakrej and No'hvadut ... do not follow this pattern. In these dialects, there is no reforming of the sentences for toasts; the subject always follows the verb. Thus, as toasts, {jejjaj tajlIj} (May your knife be sharp) and {wo' DevtaHjaj ghawran} (May Gowron continue to lead the empire) are perfectly acceptable, even though the verb ending with {-jaj} is not the last thing in the sentence. (Lieven 12/12/2013): [Maltz] said he has been asked before about Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. He thought they were silly things to say (and, of course, there are no traditional Klingon ways to say these things), but he said that if you have to say Happy New Year, you could say {DIS chu' yItIv} or {DIS chu' DatIvjaj} or {DIS chu' botIvjaj} or the like. For Merry Christmas, he wasn't so sure. He said that perhaps you could use the name of the holiday (which would be {QISmaS}) and say {QISmaS yItIv} or {QISmaS DatIvjaj} and so on. He thought that people who know about Christmas would understand that. -- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
maja'chuqjaj? Can we talk?
isn't here an interrogative {-'a'} missing ? and hold on a minute ! how can we place the {-'a'} which is a type 9 verb suffix, on a word which already has a type 9 verb suffix ? hmm ? so, if we apply the rules strictly, we can't use {-jaj} in order to create yes/no questions..
lenglIj lutebjaj lengwIjvaD bel rap, Sov rap, ngoQ rap je Danobpu'bogh May your journey be filled with the same joy, wisdom, and purpose you have given mine. (Frasier)
there is something I don't like with the placement of the {lengwIjvaD} ; perhaps it has to do, with me being used to seeing the {-vaD} at the beginning. mIv Hurgh qunnoq On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:46 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
'arHa':
The first bunny said, "We're here! Let's stop! {mapawta’! mamevjaj!} jatlh Qa'Hom wa'DIch.
ghunchu'wI':
I'm not sure {-jaj} is the right tool for this kind of "Let's do it" meaning. I'd simply say {mamev}, but it could just be a matter of style.
qunnoq:
As a matter of fact, when I read 'arHa's original post, I thought of commenting on this one but I didn't, because I wasn't 100% sure.
ghunchu'wI''s comment verifies my understanding of {-jaj} ; it is to be used only in a manner of expressing a wish whether this is a stand-alone wish, or it is a wish spoken during a toast.
I don't think {-jaj} can be used in order to express "are we allowed to (whatever) or are we able to (whatever)".
Here's a quick dump of what I have in my notes on {-jaj} "may, can, let" (V9: syntactic marker):
jaghpu'lI' DaghIjjaj May you scare your enemies! TKD
tlhonchaj chIljaj May they lose their nostrils! TKD
'IwlIj jachjaj May your blood scream! TKD
taHjaj boq. [untranslated] (TKD 173)
maja'chuqjaj? Can we talk? PK
reH tlhIngan wo' taHjaj May the Klingon Empire continue forever! PK (i.e. Long live the Klingon Empire!)
reH tlhInganpu' taHjaj Klingons forever! PK
bInajtaHvIS qeylIS Daghomjaj May you encounter Kahless in your dreams! PK
bItuHpa' bIHeghjaj Death before shame. PK
'Iw bIQtIqDaq bIlengjaj May you travel the River of Blood! PK
'oy' DaSIQjaj May you endure the pain! PK
QuvlIjDaq yIH tu'be'lu'jaj May your coordinates be free of tribbles! PK
reH HIvje'lIjDaq 'Iwghargh Datu'jaj May you always find a bloodworm in your glass! PK
jagh lucharghlu'ta'bogh HuH ghopDu'lIj lungaSjaj May the bile of the vanquished fill your hands! PK
jaghpu'lI' DaghIjjaj May you scare your enemies! PK
bISuvtaHvIS bIHeghjaj May you die in battle! PK
jaghmeylI' DaghIjjaj, qetjaj jaghmeylI' May you scare your enemies, may your enemies run). TKW
batlh bIHeghjaj May you die well! TKW
Dajonlu'pa' bIHeghjaj May you die before you are captured. TKW
bItuHpa' bIHeghjaj May you die before you are shamed. KCD/STK
SoSwI' vavwI' je quvmoHjaj paqvam [untranslated KGT dedication] KGT
chotwI' DaSamjaj May you find the murderer. KGT
jejjaj tajlIj May your knife be sharp. KGT
tajlIj jejjaj May your knife be sharp. (toast) KGT
wo' DevtaHjaj ghawran May Gowron continue to lead the empire. KGT (sic!) [verbs with -jaj don't take Type 7 suffixes]
wo' ghawran DevtaHjaj May Gowron continue to lead the Empire (toast) KGT
lenglIj lutebjaj lengwIjvaD bel rap, Sov rap, ngoQ rap je Danobpu'bogh May your journey be filled with the same joy, wisdom, and purpose you have given mine. (Frasier)
vaDjaj yaDDu'lIj may your toes be flexible ("apparently a wish for good fortune, or something of the sort.") (HQ 10.2:11)
reH batlh SuvtaHjaj chaH Let endless battle and honor await them! PB
tayvam tIQ wIlopchoHjaj Let us commence this ancient rite. PB
yab matlh muvchuqghach Sorgh vay' 'e' vIbotjaj. Let me not to the marriage of true minds admit impediments. (Sonnet 116)
(TKD 175f): This suffix is used to express a desire or wish on the part of the speaker that something take place in the future. When it is used, there is never a Type 7 aspect suffix. {-jaj} is often translated with "may" or "let", and it is particularly useful when placing a curse or making a toast.
(KGT 26): In a divergence from the majority of Klingon dialects, the speakers of Sakrej and No'hvadut ... do not follow this pattern. In these dialects, there is no reforming of the sentences for toasts; the subject always follows the verb. Thus, as toasts, {jejjaj tajlIj} (May your knife be sharp) and {wo' DevtaHjaj ghawran} (May Gowron continue to lead the empire) are perfectly acceptable, even though the verb ending with {-jaj} is not the last thing in the sentence.
(Lieven 12/12/2013): [Maltz] said he has been asked before about Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. He thought they were silly things to say (and, of course, there are no traditional Klingon ways to say these things), but he said that if you have to say Happy New Year, you could say {DIS chu' yItIv} or {DIS chu' DatIvjaj} or {DIS chu' botIvjaj} or the like. For Merry Christmas, he wasn't so sure. He said that perhaps you could use the name of the holiday (which would be {QISmaS}) and say {QISmaS yItIv} or {QISmaS DatIvjaj} and so on. He thought that people who know about Christmas would understand that.
-- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
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On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:17 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
maja'chuqjaj? Can we talk?
isn't here an interrogative {-'a'} missing ? and hold on a minute ! how can we place the {-'a'} which is a type 9 verb suffix, on a word which already has a type 9 verb suffix ? hmm ?
so, if we apply the rules strictly, we can't use {-jaj} in order to create yes/no questions..
This is from the start of Power Klingon. The Terran is saying "May we speak!", and then he got shot at by the Klingon for speaking that way. It's not a phrase that should be emulated as it's not something a Klingon would say. :D If you haven't listened to that audio before, I highly recommend it. qurgh
On 7/6/2016 2:17 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
maja'chuqjaj? Can we talk? isn't here an interrogative {-'a'} missing ? and hold on a minute ! how can we place the {-'a'} which is a type 9 verb suffix, on a word which already has a type 9 verb suffix ? hmm ?
so, if we apply the rules strictly, we can't use {-jaj} in order to create yes/no questions..
Don't confuse the colloquial English translation with a word-for-word translation. The Terran says *maja'chuqjaj*/let's talk./ /Can we talk?/ is merely a colloquial translation.
lenglIj lutebjaj lengwIjvaD bel rap, Sov rap, ngoQ rap je Danobpu'bogh May your journey be filled with the same joy, wisdom, and purpose you have given mine. (Frasier) there is something I don't like with the placement of the {lengwIjvaD} ; perhaps it has to do, with me being used to seeing the {-vaD} at the beginning.
The *lengwIjvaD* is associated with the verb *Danobpu'bogh. */Which you have given for my journey./ -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On 7/6/2016 12:50 PM, Alan Anderson wrote:
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:19 AM, John R. Harness <cartweel@gmail.com> wrote:
2. The first bunny said, "We're here! Let's stop! {mapawta’! mamevjaj!} jatlh Qa'Hom wa'DIch. I'm not sure {-jaj} is the right tool for this kind of "Let's do it" meaning. I'd simply say {mamev}, but it could just be a matter of style.
I disagree. *-jaj* isn't just for toasts and cursing; its purpose is to "express a desire or wish on the part of the speaker that something take place in the future." *-jaj *has been used correctly here.
4. The second bunny said, "We can hide a lot. I'll hide some in this flower pot." {QIm law' wISo'laH. chorvamDaq 'op vISo' jIH.} jatlh Qa'Hom cha'DIch. {QIm law'} is plural, so the prefix {DI-} is called for.
I managed to read the Klingon first without interference from the English, and I thought the second bunny was suggesting that some of the eggs should be *eaten* in order to hide them in his belly. The longer regional phrase {chor bargh} for "ceramic pot" might work, though I would prefer not to extend the meaning of {bargh} beyond a cooking vessel.
Why not just use *bargh?* * *
9. The kids ate the eggs and played all day. QImmey yIr puqpu'. jaj naQ reHqu'. I would interpret the English as meaning "they ate-and-played all day".
I first interpreted it as eating first, then playing. Either way, I will bring up my usual objection to *jaj naQ,* which means something more like /unbroken day/ or /undivided day/ than *jaj Hoch* /day's all, all of a day./ Or you can ignore the question and use *qaStaHvIS jaj.* Of course, as brought up elsewhere, it should be *pem,* not *jaj.* But where does the *yIr* come in? If the eating happens first, then the playing, the sentence is: *QImmey Soppu' puqpu'. qaStaHvIS pem reHqu'taH.* Otherwise: *qaStaHvIS pem QImmey SoptaH puqpu' 'ej reHqu'taH.* -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
John R. Harness (first draft):
10. Then the five little bunnies hippity hopped away! vaj qetqa' vagh Qa'Hom. mI'qa'! Supqa'!
ghunchu'wI':
This meaning of "then" is better carried by the word {ghIq}. The "away" idea isn't reflected in the Klingon.
John R. Harness (revised draft):
10. Then the five little bunnies hippity hopped away! ghIq qetqa' vagh Qa'Hom. mI'qa'! Supqa'! HopchoH!
Far Away: I added {HopchoH} at the very end. I kind of like it. How otherwise could I get across the idea of them exiting the scene?
Ways Okrand has gotten away with the "away idea": 1. using {-vo'}: naDevvo' yIghoS Go away! TKD may'meyDajvo' Haw'be' tlhIngan. A Klingon does not run away from his battles. TKW yuQvo' jIleng I roam away from the planet (HQ Dec 1998) qeylIS ‘uchHa’ ‘ej ghaHvo’ yIt He releases Kahless and walks away. (PB) molor qIpmeH ... 'ej ghaHvo' yIt. Kahless slaps Molor ... and walks away. (PB) 2. using verbs with "away" in their meaning: woD throw away (v) Soj woD He/she throws the food away. KGT bI' sweep [away] (v) pe'vIl bI'chu' forcefully sweep away (idiom) KGT (KGT 112): "The verb {bI'} (sweep) refers to the action of pushing something out of the way by using an implement or the forearm as if it were a broom. If whatever is pushed is cleared away completely, one is said to {bI'chu'} (sweep [something] away; literally, "sweep perfectly"). nge' take away (v) Ha'quj nge' take away a sash (idiom: wound one's pride) KGT Qol beam away (v) Qollu'ta' They were beamed aboard a Federation Starship. ST6 (lit. "They were beamed away.") Hop be remote [from], be far [from] (v) Daq HopHa’Daq qa’chaj nejlI’ qotar Qempa’QeH je Not far away, Kotar and his Qempa'keh, Are in search for their souls. (PB) 3. other (I'm not sure how to describe this): qotarvaD lay'ta' 'ej batlh pab qeylIS jatlh 'e' mevDI' nuvpu' mejmoH ghaH ratlh be'nalDaj luqara' neH Kahless kept his word of honor to Kotar, After his last words, all were sent away, But his wife Lukara. (PB) -- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
may'meyDajvo' Haw'be' tlhIngan. A Klingon does not run away from his battles. TKW
If I don't say this I will explode.. Although a "battle" takes place at a physical location, the "battle event" isn't the location itself. This example contradicts the rule "{-Daq} and {-vo'} are to be used only for physical locations". Is there even a single descent argument, why I shouldn't use this example, as all the justification I would ever need, in order to use {-Daq} and {-vo'} for anything abstract, metaphorical, and immaterial I could possibly ever imagine ? On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 5:50 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
John R. Harness (first draft):
10. Then the five little bunnies hippity hopped away! vaj qetqa' vagh Qa'Hom. mI'qa'! Supqa'!
ghunchu'wI':
This meaning of "then" is better carried by the word {ghIq}. The "away" idea isn't reflected in the Klingon.
John R. Harness (revised draft):
10. Then the five little bunnies hippity hopped away! ghIq qetqa' vagh Qa'Hom. mI'qa'! Supqa'! HopchoH!
Far Away: I added {HopchoH} at the very end. I kind of like it. How otherwise could I get across the idea of them exiting the scene?
Ways Okrand has gotten away with the "away idea":
1. using {-vo'}:
naDevvo' yIghoS Go away! TKD
may'meyDajvo' Haw'be' tlhIngan. A Klingon does not run away from his battles. TKW
yuQvo' jIleng I roam away from the planet (HQ Dec 1998)
qeylIS ‘uchHa’ ‘ej ghaHvo’ yIt He releases Kahless and walks away. (PB)
molor qIpmeH ... 'ej ghaHvo' yIt. Kahless slaps Molor ... and walks away. (PB)
2. using verbs with "away" in their meaning:
woD throw away (v)
Soj woD He/she throws the food away. KGT
bI' sweep [away] (v)
pe'vIl bI'chu' forcefully sweep away (idiom) KGT
(KGT 112): "The verb {bI'} (sweep) refers to the action of pushing something out of the way by using an implement or the forearm as if it were a broom. If whatever is pushed is cleared away completely, one is said to {bI'chu'} (sweep [something] away; literally, "sweep perfectly").
nge' take away (v)
Ha'quj nge' take away a sash (idiom: wound one's pride) KGT
Qol beam away (v)
Qollu'ta' They were beamed aboard a Federation Starship. ST6 (lit. "They were beamed away.")
Hop be remote [from], be far [from] (v)
Daq HopHa’Daq qa’chaj nejlI’ qotar Qempa’QeH je Not far away, Kotar and his Qempa'keh, Are in search for their souls. (PB)
3. other (I'm not sure how to describe this):
qotarvaD lay'ta' 'ej batlh pab qeylIS jatlh 'e' mevDI' nuvpu' mejmoH ghaH ratlh be'nalDaj luqara' neH Kahless kept his word of honor to Kotar, After his last words, all were sent away, But his wife Lukara. (PB)
-- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
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yuQvo' jIleng I roam away from the planet (HQ Dec 1998)
although the {-vo'} inherently expresses the "moving away from somewhere", I believe that {vIleng} would be better. The way it is written, one cannot distinguish what is happening : a. Am I just enjoying the ride which happens to be taking place away from the planet, with the distance between me and the planet remaining the same (perhaps I'm orbiting the planet at a very high altitude) or b. I'm moving in such a way that the distance between me and the planet actually increases ? If I read this sentence in light with what we know, with regards to the verbs of movement, I would understand option a.
Daq HopHa’Daq not far away
the {Daq} connected to the {HopHa'} is a typo, or the phrase goes {(Daq HopHa')Daq} ? I mean the second {Daq} is a supposed to be correctly migrated type 5 noun suffix, or a wrongly connected noun ? other than that, I don't see the reason of choosing {-Ha'} on {Hop}, instead of {-be}. On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 6:25 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
may'meyDajvo' Haw'be' tlhIngan. A Klingon does not run away from his battles. TKW
If I don't say this I will explode..
Although a "battle" takes place at a physical location, the "battle event" isn't the location itself. This example contradicts the rule "{-Daq} and {-vo'} are to be used only for physical locations".
Is there even a single descent argument, why I shouldn't use this example, as all the justification I would ever need, in order to use {-Daq} and {-vo'} for anything abstract, metaphorical, and immaterial I could possibly ever imagine ?
On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 5:50 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
John R. Harness (first draft):
10. Then the five little bunnies hippity hopped away! vaj qetqa' vagh Qa'Hom. mI'qa'! Supqa'!
ghunchu'wI':
This meaning of "then" is better carried by the word {ghIq}. The "away" idea isn't reflected in the Klingon.
John R. Harness (revised draft):
10. Then the five little bunnies hippity hopped away! ghIq qetqa' vagh Qa'Hom. mI'qa'! Supqa'! HopchoH!
Far Away: I added {HopchoH} at the very end. I kind of like it. How otherwise could I get across the idea of them exiting the scene?
Ways Okrand has gotten away with the "away idea":
1. using {-vo'}:
naDevvo' yIghoS Go away! TKD
may'meyDajvo' Haw'be' tlhIngan. A Klingon does not run away from his battles. TKW
yuQvo' jIleng I roam away from the planet (HQ Dec 1998)
qeylIS ‘uchHa’ ‘ej ghaHvo’ yIt He releases Kahless and walks away. (PB)
molor qIpmeH ... 'ej ghaHvo' yIt. Kahless slaps Molor ... and walks away. (PB)
2. using verbs with "away" in their meaning:
woD throw away (v)
Soj woD He/she throws the food away. KGT
bI' sweep [away] (v)
pe'vIl bI'chu' forcefully sweep away (idiom) KGT
(KGT 112): "The verb {bI'} (sweep) refers to the action of pushing something out of the way by using an implement or the forearm as if it were a broom. If whatever is pushed is cleared away completely, one is said to {bI'chu'} (sweep [something] away; literally, "sweep perfectly").
nge' take away (v)
Ha'quj nge' take away a sash (idiom: wound one's pride) KGT
Qol beam away (v)
Qollu'ta' They were beamed aboard a Federation Starship. ST6 (lit. "They were beamed away.")
Hop be remote [from], be far [from] (v)
Daq HopHa’Daq qa’chaj nejlI’ qotar Qempa’QeH je Not far away, Kotar and his Qempa'keh, Are in search for their souls. (PB)
3. other (I'm not sure how to describe this):
qotarvaD lay'ta' 'ej batlh pab qeylIS jatlh 'e' mevDI' nuvpu' mejmoH ghaH ratlh be'nalDaj luqara' neH Kahless kept his word of honor to Kotar, After his last words, all were sent away, But his wife Lukara. (PB)
-- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
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qunnoq:
may'meyDajvo' Haw'be' tlhIngan. A Klingon does not run away from his battles. TKW
If I don't say this I will explode..
Although a "battle" takes place at a physical location, the "battle event" isn't the location itself. This example contradicts the rule "{-Daq} and {-vo'} are to be used only for physical locations".
I'm not sure it's a strict rule rather than an observation or rule-of-thumb, but there is another example of this with {may'}: may'Daq jaHDI' SuvwI' juppu'Daj lonbe' When a warrior goes to a battle, he does not abandon his friends. TKW After a quick search I couldn't find any other examples of events with {-Daq} and {-vo'}. E.g. lopno', yupma', qoS, 'uQ'a', ghu', wanI', etc. Can anybody think of one?
Is there even a single descent argument, why I shouldn't use this example, as all the justification I would ever need, in order to use {-Daq} and {- vo'} for anything abstract, metaphorical, and immaterial I could possibly ever imagine ?
Don’t jump to conclusions. Perhaps {may'} is an exception? Perhaps Klingon culture doesn't consider a {may'} to be "abstract, metaphorical, and immaterial"? Perhaps {may'} is considered a type of location - like {naDev} (hereabouts), {pa'} (thereabouts), {Dat} (everywhere) and possibly {vogh} (somewhere, someplace) - which we know can take {-vo'}: naDevvo' yIghoS Go away! TKD naDevvo' jIleghlaHchu'be' I can't see well from here. CK naDevvo' vaS'a'Daq majaHlaH'a' Can we get to the Great Hall from here? PK Okrand discussed these in TKD: (TKD 27f): It is worth noting at this point that the concepts expressed by the English adverbs here, there, and everywhere are expressed by nouns in Klingon: {naDev} hereabouts, {pa'} thereabouts, {Dat} everywhere. These words may perhaps be translated more literally as "area around here," "area over there," and "all places," respectively. Unlike other nouns, these three words are never followed by the locative suffix [{-Daq}]. (Note that {pa'} "thereabouts" and {pa'} "room" are identical in sound; {pa'Daq}, however, can mean only "in/to the room"). However, there is this one counter-example: pa'Daq qaStaH nuq What's happening over there? [sic!] CK Perhaps {pa'Daq} is a common mistake, like {tu'lu'}? Perhaps this is considered substandard or uneducated speech? (Why else would grammarians make such a rule?) Not all native speakers follow elitist, prescriptive rules. Klingons even have a word for this: (KGT 176): Sometimes words or phrases are coined for a specific occasion, intentionally violating grammatical rules in order to have an impact. Usually these are never heard again, though some gain currency and might as well be classified as slang. Klingon grammarians call such forms {mu'mey ru'} (temporary words). Sometimes, {mu'mey ru'} fill a void - that is, give voice to an idea for which there is no standard (or even slang) expression; sometimes, like slang, they are just more emphatic ways of expressing an idea. A common way to create these constructions is to bend the grammatical rules somewhat, violating the norm in a way that is so obvious that there is no question that it is being done intentionally. To do this is expressed in Klingon as {pabHa'} ("misfollow [the rules], follow [the rules] wrongly"). (KGT 181): No one accepts such constructions as grammatical; their inappropriateness, the way they grate on the Klingon ear, is exactly what gives them elocutionary clout. A visitor may hear one of these odd suffixes occasionally, but, as with other intentionally ungrammatical forms, it is best to avoid using them until one is extremely comfortable with the nuances of Klingon style. (TKD, introduction): The grammatical sketch is intended to be an outline of Klingon grammar, not a complete description. Nevertheless, it should allow the reader to put Klingon words together in an acceptable manner... What follows is only a sketch or outline of Klingon grammar. Although a good many of the fine points are not covered, the sketch will allow the student of Klingon to figure out what a Klingon is saying and to respond in an intelligible, though somewhat brutish, manner. Most Klingons will never know the difference. (TKD, introduction): It should be remembered that even though the rules say 'always' and 'never,' when Klingon is actually spoken these rules are sometimes broken. What the rules represent, in other words, is what Klingon grammarians agree on as the 'best' Klingon. (KGT 172): Agreeing is not a trait typically associated with Klingon nature, however, and apparently, at least under certain circumstances, this may extend to grammar as well. OTOH the CK {pa'Daq} example may simply be a mistake by Okrand. Whenever people gleefully point these out I am always reminded of the 16th century Holy Roman Emperor Sigismund who once made a mistake in his Latin. When told of this he replied, "Ego sum imperator Romanorum, et supra grammaticam." -- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
On Fri, 8 Jul 2016, 17:25 mayqel qunenoS, <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
may'meyDajvo' Haw'be' tlhIngan. A Klingon does not run away from his battles. TKW
If I don't say this I will explode..
Although a "battle" takes place at a physical location, the "battle event" isn't the location itself. This example contradicts the rule "{-Daq} and {-vo'} are to be used only for physical locations".
They are *typically* used for physical locations. A {may'} is still a concrete thing that you can be at or go away from. The abstract concept of a battle is a separate word, {vIq}, in Klingon, and you can't be at or run away from a {vIq}. -- De'vID
maj voragh and De'vID, thanks ! On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 1:25 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jul 2016, 17:25 mayqel qunenoS, <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
may'meyDajvo' Haw'be' tlhIngan. A Klingon does not run away from his battles. TKW
If I don't say this I will explode..
Although a "battle" takes place at a physical location, the "battle event" isn't the location itself. This example contradicts the rule "{-Daq} and {-vo'} are to be used only for physical locations".
They are *typically* used for physical locations. A {may'} is still a concrete thing that you can be at or go away from. The abstract concept of a battle is a separate word, {vIq}, in Klingon, and you can't be at or run away from a {vIq}.
-- De'vID
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lutvam vIlaD. lut Qoy puqloDwI'. tIvqu'! mIllogh chenmoH neH. paq chenmoH neH je. ~naHQun -- ~Michael Roney, Jr. Freelance Translator
Thanks for your input everyone. Below a few comments I've pasted a new version incorporating most of your advice. I don't think I missed anything! re: yIr instead of Sop: This is weird in the book. Who eats Easter eggs, first of all? Even so, the image on the page shows a child eating either a live yellow bird or (more likely) candy like a "Peep" (which is bird-shaped), not one of the eggs. Thus I chose yIr because I thought it fit better, and one of the reasons I want to use books like these is because of the visual cues they give -- but this particular cue is misleading. Call it "An Interpretation of Five Little Bunnies by Dan Yaccarino." And, re: ghunchu'wI': "Are {ngIq QIm nguv} and {Hoch QIm nuv} singular? The prefix {lu-} would be called for if so." I can't quite tell if the object is singular or plural in these instances. (It is like a conversation SuStel and I were having on Facebook re: Hoch and how it works in a noun-noun phrase.) What do you all think I should go with? Far Away: I added {HopchoH} at the very end. I kind of like it. How otherwise could I get across the idea of them exiting the scene? 1. Five little bunnies went hippity hop. qettaH vagh Qa'Hom. mI'. Sup. 2. The first bunny said, "We're here! Let's stop! {mapawta’! mamevjaj!} jatlh Qa'Hom wa'DIch. 3. Let's hide Easter eggs. We all know how. We need to hurry. Let's start right now!" {QImmey nguv wISo'jaj. mIw wISovchu’ maH! wImoDnIS. DaH maruchjaj!} 4. The second bunny said, "We can hide a lot. I'll hide some in this flower pot." {QIm law' DISo'laH. chorvamDaq 'op vISo' jIH.} jatlh Qa'Hom cha'DIch. 5. The third bunny said, "The kids will find striped ones, spotted ones--every kind." {wov 'op 'ej Hurgh 'op. Segh law' SamlaH puqpu'.} jatlh Qa'Hom wejDIch. 6. The fourth bunny said, "Now the fun can start." {DaH taghlaH lop.} jatlh Qa'Hom loSDIch. 7. The fifth bunny said, "I love this part!" {Qujvam vImaSqu'!} jatlh Qa'Hom vaghDIch. 8. The kids found the Easter eggs one by one. The little bunnies said, "Our job is done!" ngIq QIm nguv luSamta’ puqpu'. {pItlh! rIn Qu'maj,} jatlh Hoch Qa'Hom. 9. The kids ate the eggs and played all day. QImmey yIr puqpu'. pem Hoch reHqu'. pem Hoch QImmey yIrtaH puqpu’ ‘ej reHtaH. 10. Then the five little bunnies hippity hopped away! ghIq qetqa' vagh Qa'Hom. mI'qa'! Supqa'! HopchoH! -- Socialist Alternative <http://www.socialistalternative.org/> Klingon Language Institute <http://www.kli.org/> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Michael Roney, Jr. <nahqun@gmail.com> wrote:
lutvam vIlaD. lut Qoy puqloDwI'. tIvqu'!
mIllogh chenmoH neH. paq chenmoH neH je.
~naHQun
-- ~Michael Roney, Jr. Freelance Translator _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
'oy', Under 9 I obviously forgot to delete an old version of a sentence. I mean to go with {pem Hoch QImmey yIrtaH puqpu' 'ej reHtaH.} -- Socialist Alternative <http://www.socialistalternative.org/> Klingon Language Institute <http://www.kli.org/> On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 1:11 AM, John R. Harness <cartweel@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for your input everyone. Below a few comments I've pasted a new version incorporating most of your advice. I don't think I missed anything!
re: yIr instead of Sop: This is weird in the book. Who eats Easter eggs, first of all? Even so, the image on the page shows a child eating either a live yellow bird or (more likely) candy like a "Peep" (which is bird-shaped), not one of the eggs. Thus I chose yIr because I thought it fit better, and one of the reasons I want to use books like these is because of the visual cues they give -- but this particular cue is misleading. Call it "An Interpretation of Five Little Bunnies by Dan Yaccarino."
And,
re: ghunchu'wI': "Are {ngIq QIm nguv} and {Hoch QIm nuv} singular? The prefix {lu-} would be called for if so." I can't quite tell if the object is singular or plural in these instances. (It is like a conversation SuStel and I were having on Facebook re: Hoch and how it works in a noun-noun phrase.) What do you all think I should go with?
Far Away: I added {HopchoH} at the very end. I kind of like it. How otherwise could I get across the idea of them exiting the scene?
1. Five little bunnies went hippity hop.
qettaH vagh Qa'Hom. mI'. Sup.
2. The first bunny said, "We're here! Let's stop!
{mapawta’! mamevjaj!} jatlh Qa'Hom wa'DIch.
3. Let's hide Easter eggs. We all know how. We need to hurry. Let's start right now!"
{QImmey nguv wISo'jaj. mIw wISovchu’ maH! wImoDnIS. DaH maruchjaj!}
4. The second bunny said, "We can hide a lot. I'll hide some in this flower pot."
{QIm law' DISo'laH. chorvamDaq 'op vISo' jIH.} jatlh Qa'Hom cha'DIch.
5. The third bunny said, "The kids will find striped ones, spotted ones--every kind."
{wov 'op 'ej Hurgh 'op. Segh law' SamlaH puqpu'.} jatlh Qa'Hom wejDIch.
6. The fourth bunny said, "Now the fun can start."
{DaH taghlaH lop.} jatlh Qa'Hom loSDIch.
7. The fifth bunny said, "I love this part!"
{Qujvam vImaSqu'!} jatlh Qa'Hom vaghDIch.
8. The kids found the Easter eggs one by one. The little bunnies said, "Our job is done!"
ngIq QIm nguv luSamta’ puqpu'. {pItlh! rIn Qu'maj,} jatlh Hoch Qa'Hom.
9. The kids ate the eggs and played all day.
QImmey yIr puqpu'. pem Hoch reHqu'.
pem Hoch QImmey yIrtaH puqpu’ ‘ej reHtaH.
10. Then the five little bunnies hippity hopped away! ghIq qetqa' vagh Qa'Hom. mI'qa'! Supqa'! HopchoH!
--
Socialist Alternative <http://www.socialistalternative.org/> Klingon Language Institute <http://www.kli.org/>
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Michael Roney, Jr. <nahqun@gmail.com> wrote:
lutvam vIlaD. lut Qoy puqloDwI'. tIvqu'!
mIllogh chenmoH neH. paq chenmoH neH je.
~naHQun
-- ~Michael Roney, Jr. Freelance Translator _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
qurgh:
This is from the start of Power Klingon. The Terran is saying "May we speak!", and then he got shot at by the Klingon for speaking that way. It's not a phrase that should be emulated as it's not something a Klingon would say
hahaha ! I didn't know that, thanks ! SuStel:
The lengwIjvaD is associated with the verb Danobpu'bogh. Which you have given for my journey.
ok ! 'arHa':
Who eats Easter eggs, first of all?
?!?!?! vISop 'ej Sop latlh Hut'uy' HutbIp Hutnetlh Hutvatlh HutmaH Hut 'elaDya'ngan je ! ?!?!?! I eat them, and an additional 9.999.999 greeks ! naDev, reH easter QImmey Doq wISop ! here we always eat the red easter eggs ! wa'DIch DIpub, ghIq DIDoqchoHmoH, ghIq latlh QIm ngeQ wa' QIm 'e' wIqaSmoH.. first we boil them, then we paint them red, then we hit one egg with the other.. 'ej tagha' wISop ! and finally we eat them ! mIv mop je Hurgh qunnoq On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 9:28 AM, John R. Harness <cartweel@gmail.com> wrote:
'oy', Under 9 I obviously forgot to delete an old version of a sentence. I mean to go with {pem Hoch QImmey yIrtaH puqpu' 'ej reHtaH.}
--
Socialist Alternative Klingon Language Institute
On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 1:11 AM, John R. Harness <cartweel@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for your input everyone. Below a few comments I've pasted a new version incorporating most of your advice. I don't think I missed anything!
re: yIr instead of Sop: This is weird in the book. Who eats Easter eggs, first of all? Even so, the image on the page shows a child eating either a live yellow bird or (more likely) candy like a "Peep" (which is bird-shaped), not one of the eggs. Thus I chose yIr because I thought it fit better, and one of the reasons I want to use books like these is because of the visual cues they give -- but this particular cue is misleading. Call it "An Interpretation of Five Little Bunnies by Dan Yaccarino."
And,
re: ghunchu'wI': "Are {ngIq QIm nguv} and {Hoch QIm nuv} singular? The prefix {lu-} would be called for if so." I can't quite tell if the object is singular or plural in these instances. (It is like a conversation SuStel and I were having on Facebook re: Hoch and how it works in a noun-noun phrase.) What do you all think I should go with?
Far Away: I added {HopchoH} at the very end. I kind of like it. How otherwise could I get across the idea of them exiting the scene?
1. Five little bunnies went hippity hop.
qettaH vagh Qa'Hom. mI'. Sup.
2. The first bunny said, "We're here! Let's stop!
{mapawta’! mamevjaj!} jatlh Qa'Hom wa'DIch.
3. Let's hide Easter eggs. We all know how. We need to hurry. Let's start right now!"
{QImmey nguv wISo'jaj. mIw wISovchu’ maH! wImoDnIS. DaH maruchjaj!}
4. The second bunny said, "We can hide a lot. I'll hide some in this flower pot."
{QIm law' DISo'laH. chorvamDaq 'op vISo' jIH.} jatlh Qa'Hom cha'DIch.
5. The third bunny said, "The kids will find striped ones, spotted ones--every kind."
{wov 'op 'ej Hurgh 'op. Segh law' SamlaH puqpu'.} jatlh Qa'Hom wejDIch.
6. The fourth bunny said, "Now the fun can start."
{DaH taghlaH lop.} jatlh Qa'Hom loSDIch.
7. The fifth bunny said, "I love this part!"
{Qujvam vImaSqu'!} jatlh Qa'Hom vaghDIch.
8. The kids found the Easter eggs one by one. The little bunnies said, "Our job is done!"
ngIq QIm nguv luSamta’ puqpu'. {pItlh! rIn Qu'maj,} jatlh Hoch Qa'Hom.
9. The kids ate the eggs and played all day.
QImmey yIr puqpu'. pem Hoch reHqu'.
pem Hoch QImmey yIrtaH puqpu’ ‘ej reHtaH.
10. Then the five little bunnies hippity hopped away!
ghIq qetqa' vagh Qa'Hom. mI'qa'! Supqa'! HopchoH!
--
Socialist Alternative Klingon Language Institute
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Michael Roney, Jr. <nahqun@gmail.com> wrote:
lutvam vIlaD. lut Qoy puqloDwI'. tIvqu'!
mIllogh chenmoH neH. paq chenmoH neH je.
~naHQun
-- ~Michael Roney, Jr. Freelance Translator _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
mep bIH Hoch QImmey ngub'e' chaq 'e' Har 'arHa... -QISta' P.S. it is "QImmey ngub'e' " and not "QImmey'e' ngub", correct? On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 2:28 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
qurgh:
This is from the start of Power Klingon. The Terran is saying "May we speak!", and then he got shot at by the Klingon for speaking that way. It's not a phrase that should be emulated as it's not something a Klingon would say
hahaha ! I didn't know that, thanks !
SuStel:
The lengwIjvaD is associated with the verb Danobpu'bogh. Which you have given for my journey.
ok !
'arHa':
Who eats Easter eggs, first of all?
?!?!?! vISop 'ej Sop latlh Hut'uy' HutbIp Hutnetlh Hutvatlh HutmaH Hut 'elaDya'ngan je ! ?!?!?! I eat them, and an additional 9.999.999 greeks !
naDev, reH easter QImmey Doq wISop ! here we always eat the red easter eggs !
wa'DIch DIpub, ghIq DIDoqchoHmoH, ghIq latlh QIm ngeQ wa' QIm 'e' wIqaSmoH.. first we boil them, then we paint them red, then we hit one egg with the other..
'ej tagha' wISop ! and finally we eat them !
mIv mop je Hurgh qunnoq
On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 9:28 AM, John R. Harness <cartweel@gmail.com> wrote:
'oy', Under 9 I obviously forgot to delete an old version of a sentence. I mean to go with {pem Hoch QImmey yIrtaH puqpu' 'ej reHtaH.}
--
Socialist Alternative Klingon Language Institute
On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 1:11 AM, John R. Harness <cartweel@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for your input everyone. Below a few comments I've pasted a new version incorporating most of your advice. I don't think I missed
anything!
re: yIr instead of Sop: This is weird in the book. Who eats Easter eggs, first of all? Even so, the image on the page shows a child eating either a live yellow bird or (more likely) candy like a "Peep" (which is bird-shaped), not one of the eggs. Thus I chose yIr because I thought it fit better, and one of the reasons I want to use books like these is because of the visual cues
they
give -- but this particular cue is misleading. Call it "An Interpretation of Five Little Bunnies by Dan Yaccarino."
And,
re: ghunchu'wI': "Are {ngIq QIm nguv} and {Hoch QIm nuv} singular? The prefix {lu-} would be called for if so." I can't quite tell if the object is singular or plural in these instances. (It is like a conversation SuStel and I were having on Facebook re: Hoch and how it works in a noun-noun phrase.) What do you all think I should go with?
Far Away: I added {HopchoH} at the very end. I kind of like it. How otherwise could I get across the idea of them exiting the scene?
1. Five little bunnies went hippity hop.
qettaH vagh Qa'Hom. mI'. Sup.
2. The first bunny said, "We're here! Let's stop!
{mapawta’! mamevjaj!} jatlh Qa'Hom wa'DIch.
3. Let's hide Easter eggs. We all know how. We need to hurry. Let's start right now!"
{QImmey nguv wISo'jaj. mIw wISovchu’ maH! wImoDnIS. DaH maruchjaj!}
4. The second bunny said, "We can hide a lot. I'll hide some in this flower pot."
{QIm law' DISo'laH. chorvamDaq 'op vISo' jIH.} jatlh Qa'Hom cha'DIch.
5. The third bunny said, "The kids will find striped ones, spotted ones--every kind."
{wov 'op 'ej Hurgh 'op. Segh law' SamlaH puqpu'.} jatlh Qa'Hom wejDIch.
6. The fourth bunny said, "Now the fun can start."
{DaH taghlaH lop.} jatlh Qa'Hom loSDIch.
7. The fifth bunny said, "I love this part!"
{Qujvam vImaSqu'!} jatlh Qa'Hom vaghDIch.
8. The kids found the Easter eggs one by one. The little bunnies said, "Our job is done!"
ngIq QIm nguv luSamta’ puqpu'. {pItlh! rIn Qu'maj,} jatlh Hoch Qa'Hom.
9. The kids ate the eggs and played all day.
QImmey yIr puqpu'. pem Hoch reHqu'.
pem Hoch QImmey yIrtaH puqpu’ ‘ej reHtaH.
10. Then the five little bunnies hippity hopped away!
ghIq qetqa' vagh Qa'Hom. mI'qa'! Supqa'! HopchoH!
--
Socialist Alternative Klingon Language Institute
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Michael Roney, Jr. <nahqun@gmail.com> wrote:
lutvam vIlaD. lut Qoy puqloDwI'. tIvqu'!
mIllogh chenmoH neH. paq chenmoH neH je.
~naHQun
-- ~Michael Roney, Jr. Freelance Translator _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 7 July 2016 at 08:11, John R. Harness <cartweel@gmail.com> wrote:
re: ghunchu'wI': "Are {ngIq QIm nguv} and {Hoch QIm nuv} singular? The prefix {lu-} would be called for if so." I can't quite tell if the object is singular or plural in these instances. (It is like a conversation SuStel and I were having on Facebook re: Hoch and how it works in a noun-noun phrase.) What do you all think I should go with?
Consider {ngIq nuv luHoH} from the paq'batlh. -- De'vID
On 7/7/2016 2:11 AM, John R. Harness wrote:
re: yIr instead of Sop: This is weird in the book. Who eats Easter eggs, first of all?
jIH! /Easter/ QImmey vISopbej. DaSopbe'chugh, nuq Data' DaSamDI' rIntaH? -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
SuStel:
nuq Data' DaSamDI' rIntaH?
this means "what will you accomplish as soon as you have located them ?" ? On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 4:51 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 7/7/2016 2:11 AM, John R. Harness wrote:
re: yIr instead of Sop: This is weird in the book. Who eats Easter eggs, first of all?
jIH! Easter QImmey vISopbej. DaSopbe'chugh, nuq Data' DaSamDI' rIntaH?
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 7/7/2016 11:02 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
SuStel:
nuq Data' DaSamDI' rIntaH? this means "what will you accomplish as soon as you have located them ?" ?
lugh. QImmey Samta' ghaH. ghIq chay' QImmey lo'? pup'a'? bey'Daq 'agh'a'? /Easter Bunny/vaD cheghmoH'a'? nuq 'oH QImmeyDaj San'e'? -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
maj ! On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 6:09 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 7/7/2016 11:02 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
SuStel:
nuq Data' DaSamDI' rIntaH?
this means "what will you accomplish as soon as you have located them ?" ?
lugh. QImmey Samta' ghaH. ghIq chay' QImmey lo'? pup'a'? bey'Daq 'agh'a'? Easter BunnyvaD cheghmoH'a'? nuq 'oH QImmeyDaj San'e'?
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
participants (9)
-
Alan Anderson -
Christa Hansberry -
De'vID -
John R. Harness -
mayqel qunenoS -
Michael Roney, Jr. -
qurgh lungqIj -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel