beware greeks bearing gifts
qatlh wej mu'tlheghvam vImughpu' ? nobmey qembogh 'elaDya'ngan tIghuH. maj. DaH jItuHbe'choHlaH. ~ spa-rta 'oH !
I like this translation with its ambiguous head noun, since it also means “Beware the gifts that a Greek brings you,” which would have been a far more appropriate warning to the Trojans. For a long time, I’ve felt that when context doesn’t make the head noun obvious, the Relative Clause could have the valid translation, “Beware Greeks and/or the gifts they give you.” Just because there is no conjunction in the original, that doesn’t mean the translation wouldn’t be accurate. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Nov 10, 2020, at 10:38 AM, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
qatlh wej mu'tlheghvam vImughpu' ?
nobmey qembogh 'elaDya'ngan tIghuH.
maj. DaH jItuHbe'choHlaH.
~ spa-rta 'oH !
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org <mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org <http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org>
charghwI':
I like this translation with its ambiguous head noun, since it also means “Beware the gifts that a Greek brings you,”
qatlho', 'a bong qaSpu'.. {'elaDya'ngan}Daq {-'e'} vIlanpu' 'e' vIHech, 'a jIlIjba'pu'. DaH jItuHnISqa'.. mu'tlheghvam vImugh wa'DIch 'e' vIlum, 'ej ghIq pab lugh vIlo'laHbe'. 'o ghe''or Qunpu' quv ! chay' yo' qIj vImuvlaH, jIyepHa'chugh ? chay' ngoSbogh veqlargh mInDu' vIjunlaH ? chay' ? chay' ? ghay'cha' ! Qu'vatlh ! ~ 'elaDya'ngan
Am 10.11.2020 um 17:19 schrieb Will Martin:
I like this translation with its ambiguous head noun, since it also means “Beware the gifts that a Greek brings you,” which would have been a far more appropriate warning to the Trojans.
In addition to that, talking about ambiguity,
qatlh wej mu'tlheghvam vImughpu' ?
I was wondering which three sentences he was talking about. :-) And for the topic, don't forget TKW, p. 189: {nobmey qembogh yIrIDnganpu''e' yIvoqQo'.} "Don't trust Yridians who bring gifts." Which uses the -'e' suffix to avoid ambiguity, but does a prefix error. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/En/Hamletmachine
On 11/10/2020 11:35 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
And for the topic, don't forget TKW, p. 189:
{nobmey qembogh yIrIDnganpu''e' yIvoqQo'.} "Don't trust Yridians who bring gifts."
Which uses the -'e' suffix to avoid ambiguity, but does a prefix error.
nob qembogh 'elaDya'ngan tIvoqQo'. Combining all the best parts. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On 11/10/2020 11:44 AM, SuStel wrote:
On 11/10/2020 11:35 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
And for the topic, don't forget TKW, p. 189:
{nobmey qembogh yIrIDnganpu''e' yIvoqQo'.} "Don't trust Yridians who bring gifts."
Which uses the -'e' suffix to avoid ambiguity, but does a prefix error.
nob qembogh 'elaDya'ngan tIvoqQo'.
Combining all the best parts.
Just found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeo_Danaos_et_dona_ferentes The original sentence is in Latin: /Timeo Danaos et ferentes,/ which literally means /I fear the Danaans [Greeks], even though bearing gifts/ or /even when they bear gifts./ A Klingon translation more true to the original (but I won't keep the ancient name) might be: mughIj 'elaDya'ngan, vabDot nob qemDI'. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
I love the way we dig ever deeper into any given topic. Going back to the Latin. YESSSSS! I like the translation, but it loses the bit about EVEN when they bear gifts. It sounds like you only fear them when they bear gifts. So… consider: vabDot nob qemchugh ‘elaDya’ngan, mughIjHa’be’ ‘elaDya'nganvetlh. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Nov 10, 2020, at 12:11 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 11/10/2020 11:44 AM, SuStel wrote:
On 11/10/2020 11:35 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
And for the topic, don't forget TKW, p. 189:
{nobmey qembogh yIrIDnganpu''e' yIvoqQo'.} "Don't trust Yridians who bring gifts."
Which uses the -'e' suffix to avoid ambiguity, but does a prefix error.
nob qembogh 'elaDya'ngan tIvoqQo'.
Combining all the best parts.
Just found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeo_Danaos_et_dona_ferentes <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeo_Danaos_et_dona_ferentes> The original sentence is in Latin: Timeo Danaos et ferentes, which literally means I fear the Danaans [Greeks], even though bearing gifts or even when they bear gifts.
A Klingon translation more true to the original (but I won't keep the ancient name) might be:
mughIj 'elaDya'ngan, vabDot nob qemDI'.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name <http://trimboli.name/>_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
[Head smack!] vabDot! I totally ignored {vabDot}. My bad. I actually typed it while ignoring it. [sigh] charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Nov 10, 2020, at 12:24 PM, Will Martin <willmartin2@mac.com> wrote:
I love the way we dig ever deeper into any given topic. Going back to the Latin. YESSSSS!
I like the translation, but it loses the bit about EVEN when they bear gifts. It sounds like you only fear them when they bear gifts. So… consider:
vabDot nob qemchugh ‘elaDya’ngan, mughIjHa’be’ ‘elaDya'nganvetlh.
charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan
rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Nov 10, 2020, at 12:11 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name <mailto:sustel@trimboli.name>> wrote:
On 11/10/2020 11:44 AM, SuStel wrote:
On 11/10/2020 11:35 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
And for the topic, don't forget TKW, p. 189:
{nobmey qembogh yIrIDnganpu''e' yIvoqQo'.} "Don't trust Yridians who bring gifts."
Which uses the -'e' suffix to avoid ambiguity, but does a prefix error.
nob qembogh 'elaDya'ngan tIvoqQo'.
Combining all the best parts.
Just found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeo_Danaos_et_dona_ferentes <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeo_Danaos_et_dona_ferentes> The original sentence is in Latin: Timeo Danaos et ferentes, which literally means I fear the Danaans [Greeks], even though bearing gifts or even when they bear gifts.
A Klingon translation more true to the original (but I won't keep the ancient name) might be:
mughIj 'elaDya'ngan, vabDot nob qemDI'.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name <http://trimboli.name/>_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org <mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
participants (4)
-
Lieven L. Litaer -
mayqel qunen'oS -
SuStel -
Will Martin