Re: [tlhIngan Hol] <<poSayDon>> vImughlI'
Thanks for the help so far. Here a little bit more. ghaHvaD bIQDaq 'oHbe'bogh Qu' chuplu'chugh ghaH, ropmoH qechvam. Qun tlhuHDaj nISchoHlu'. 'ej pujchoHmoH porghDaj Hosghaj.
And when a job away from the water was offered to him he would get sick at the very prospect, his divine breathing would become troubled and his brazen chest began to tremble. Und bot man ihm eine Stellung außerhalb des Wassers an, wurde ihm schon von der Vorstellung übel, sein göttlicher Atem geriet in Unordnung, sein eherner Brustkorb schwankte.
beplaw' 'ach ghaH Harbej pagh: QeHDI' HoSghajqu'wI', yonmoHlu'meH, ghaHvaD Qapla'qoqmey qItHa' chavnISlaw'lu'. Qu'Daj choHbej poSayDon 'e' qel pagh. wa'DIchna' bIQmey Qun'a' mojmoHlu', 'ej vaj retlhtaHnIS.
Besides, his complaints were not really taken seriously; when one of the mighty is vexatious the appearance of an effort must be made to placate him, even when the case is most hopeless. In actuality a shift of posts was unthinkable for Poseidon — he had been appointed God of the Sea in the beginning, and that he had to remain. Übrigens nahm man seine Beschwerden nicht eigentlich ernst; wenn ein Mächtiger quält, muß man ihm auch in der aussichtslosesten Angelegenheit scheinbar nachzugeben versuchen; an eine wirkliche Enthebung Poseidons von seinem Amte dachte niemand, seit Urbeginn war er zum Gott der Meere bestimmt worden und dabei mußte es bleiben.
QImSIr
On 1/10/2017 5:16 PM, Brian Cote wrote:
ghaHvaD bIQDaq 'oHbe'bogh Qu' chuplu'chugh ghaH, ropmoH qechvam. Qun tlhuHDaj nISchoHlu'. 'ej pujchoHmoH porghDaj Hosghaj.
And when a job away from the water was offered to him he would get sick at the very prospect, his divine breathing would become troubled and his brazen chest began to tremble. Und bot man ihm eine Stellung außerhalb des Wassers an, wurde ihm schon von der Vorstellung übel, sein göttlicher Atem geriet in Unordnung, sein eherner Brustkorb schwankte.
I see you got rid**of the erroneous final *ghaH* of the first sentence in your correction. You dropped the *-'e'*on *Qu'. *Also, when using a pronoun-as-verb to talk about being in a place, Okrand has always used *-taH* on the pronoun: *ghaHvaD bIQDaq 'oHbe'taHbogh Qu''e' chuplu'chugh*/if a job which is not at the water were is to him./ We have so many words for anatomy, it's strange we don't have a word for /chest./ Consider *ro*/trunk (of body). /I wonder if a *ro* can *Qom;* that might be better than just saying it weakens him.
beplaw' 'ach ghaH Harbej pagh: QeHDI' HoSghajqu'wI', yonmoHlu'meH, ghaHvaD Qapla'qoqmey qItHa' chavnISlaw'lu'. Qu'Daj choHbej poSayDon 'e' qel pagh. wa'DIchna' bIQmey Qun'a' mojmoHlu', 'ej vaj retlhtaHnIS.
Besides, his complaints were not really taken seriously; when one of the mighty is vexatious the appearance of an effort must be made to placate him, even when the case is most hopeless. In actuality a shift of posts was unthinkable for Poseidon — he had been appointed God of the Sea in the beginning, and that he had to remain. Übrigens nahm man seine Beschwerden nicht eigentlich ernst; wenn ein Mächtiger quält, muß man ihm auch in der aussichtslosesten Angelegenheit scheinbar nachzugeben versuchen; an eine wirkliche Enthebung Poseidons von seinem Amte dachte niemand, seit Urbeginn war er zum Gott der Meere bestimmt worden und dabei mußte es bleiben.
Why does he only apparently complain? I don't think you want *-law'* on the first sentence. I don't really see *Qapla'qoqmey qItHa'* as approaching /the appearance of an effort./ This sentence seems to lose a lot of meaning. Try recasting it. If you're using *-law'* to try to get across the "appearance" part, note that *-law'* tells of certainty of the speaker, not characters in the story. I have some trouble believing *wa'DIchna'* is a good way to say /in the beginning./ How about *qa'vam* /Genesis, the Big Bang, the origin of everything, the start of it all/? Use it just as it is as a time stamp. *mojmoHlu'* needs to be *lumojmoHlu'.* But consider using the word *gheS* /assume duties of/ instead! Also consider using the perfective here. You got your suffixes in the wrong order in the last word. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
As always, great advice. Thanks! How did I not know about {gheS}!? And I got a little sloppy there at the end. I'll keep a better eye open for misordered suffixes, etc. QImSIr On Tuesday, January 10, 2017, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 1/10/2017 5:16 PM, Brian Cote wrote:
ghaHvaD bIQDaq 'oHbe'bogh Qu' chuplu'chugh ghaH, ropmoH qechvam. Qun tlhuHDaj nISchoHlu'. 'ej pujchoHmoH porghDaj Hosghaj.
And when a job away from the water was offered to him he would get sick at the very prospect, his divine breathing would become troubled and his brazen chest began to tremble. Und bot man ihm eine Stellung außerhalb des Wassers an, wurde ihm schon von der Vorstellung übel, sein göttlicher Atem geriet in Unordnung, sein eherner Brustkorb schwankte.
I see you got rid of the erroneous final *ghaH* of the first sentence in your correction.
You dropped the *-'e'*on *Qu'. *Also, when using a pronoun-as-verb to talk about being in a place, Okrand has always used *-taH* on the pronoun: *ghaHvaD bIQDaq 'oHbe'taHbogh Qu''e' chuplu'chugh** if a job which is not at the water were is to him.*
We have so many words for anatomy, it's strange we don't have a word for *chest.* Consider *ro** trunk (of body). *I wonder if a *ro* can *Qom;* that might be better than just saying it weakens him.
beplaw' 'ach ghaH Harbej pagh: QeHDI' HoSghajqu'wI', yonmoHlu'meH, ghaHvaD Qapla'qoqmey qItHa' chavnISlaw'lu'. Qu'Daj choHbej poSayDon 'e' qel pagh. wa'DIchna' bIQmey Qun'a' mojmoHlu', 'ej vaj retlhtaHnIS.
Besides, his complaints were not really taken seriously; when one of the mighty is vexatious the appearance of an effort must be made to placate him, even when the case is most hopeless. In actuality a shift of posts was unthinkable for Poseidon — he had been appointed God of the Sea in the beginning, and that he had to remain. Übrigens nahm man seine Beschwerden nicht eigentlich ernst; wenn ein Mächtiger quält, muß man ihm auch in der aussichtslosesten Angelegenheit scheinbar nachzugeben versuchen; an eine wirkliche Enthebung Poseidons von seinem Amte dachte niemand, seit Urbeginn war er zum Gott der Meere bestimmt worden und dabei mußte es bleiben.
Why does he only apparently complain? I don't think you want *-law'* on the first sentence.
I don't really see *Qapla'qoqmey qItHa'* as approaching *the appearance of an effort.* This sentence seems to lose a lot of meaning. Try recasting it.
If you're using *-law'* to try to get across the "appearance" part, note that *-law'* tells of certainty of the speaker, not characters in the story.
I have some trouble believing *wa'DIchna'* is a good way to say *in the beginning.* How about *qa'vam* *Genesis, the Big Bang, the origin of everything, the start of it all*? Use it just as it is as a time stamp.
*mojmoHlu'* needs to be *lumojmoHlu'.* But consider using the word *gheS* *assume duties of* instead! Also consider using the perfective here.
You got your suffixes in the wrong order in the last word.
-- SuStelhttp://trimboli.name
{SIbI'} is listed as "immediately". Perhaps because CB radio often let people get into contact with each other immediately, before mobile phones / cellphones started?
Here's a little bit more. Getting close to the end of the first pass. roD bIQ yu'eghDaq lIgh, DuQwI' jeqbogh che'wI' nuH'e' 'ochtaHvIS, 'e' luHar ghot law'. 'ej vaj ghaH QeHqu'moH qechna'vam 'ej bI'reS Qu'DajvaD ghaH parqu'moH.
What irritated him most — and it was this that was chiefly responsible for his dissatisfaction with his job — was to hear of the conceptions formed about him: how he was always riding about through the tides with his trident.
yuQ bIQ'a'Daq ba'taHvIS, SImtaH. 'e' 'oH ghu' teH'e'. rut yupItIr SuchmeH, leng poSayDon. 'e' 'oH DaltaHbe'ghachDaj neH'e'. motlh cheghtaHvIS, QeH.
When all the while he sat here in the depths of the world-ocean, doing figures uninterruptedly, with now and then a trip to Jupiter as the only break in the monotony — a trip, moreover, from which he usually returned in a rage.
QImSIr
On 1/14/2017 8:10 PM, Brian Cote wrote:
roD bIQ yu'eghDaq lIgh, DuQwI' jeqbogh che'wI' nuH'e' 'ochtaHvIS, 'e' luHar ghot law'. 'ej vaj ghaH QeHqu'moH qechna'vam 'ej bI'reS Qu'DajvaD ghaH parqu'moH.
What irritated him most — and it was this that was chiefly responsible for his dissatisfaction with his job — was to hear of the conceptions formed about him: how he was always riding about through the tides with his trident.
I'm still having trouble following this; I think you're sticking too closely to the literal text and not thinking in Klingon about what it means. /Many people believed he rode regularly on the water-waves, while holding /[I think you meant *'uch,* not *'och*] /the ruler's weapon which protrudes from spikes. And thus this definite idea made him very angry and it made the beginning of his job presentation very much dislike./ I'm pretty sure you got a couple of subjects and objects mixed up there. Try taking this paragraph apart in English (or German) into the simplest sentences you can, and list them in bullet-points. Use these points to create your Klingon sentences.
yuQ bIQ'a'Daq ba'taHvIS, SImtaH. 'e' 'oH ghu' teH'e'. rut yupItIr SuchmeH, leng poSayDon. 'e' 'oH DaltaHbe'ghachDaj neH'e'. motlh cheghtaHvIS, QeH.
When all the while he sat here in the depths of the world-ocean, doing figures uninterruptedly, with now and then a trip to Jupiter as the only break in the monotony — a trip, moreover, from which he usually returned in a rage.
*DaltaHbe'ghach*/break in the monotony/... very nice! I'm not going to say that *'e' 'oH */something/*'e'* is necessarily wrong, but it feels wrong to me. You could replace the first one, for instance, with *ghu/' /teH 'oH ghu'vam'e'*/this situation is the true situation./ But really you could probably reduce this to using *-bej* in the sentence. This paragraph is a little less convoluted than the first, but it could still use some working over. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
Thanks again. I do have some more specific grammar / usage questions about the following sentences that I translated. ej vaj ghaH QeHqu'moH qechna'vam 'ej bI'reS Qu'DajvaD ghaH parqu'moH. Disregarding your suggestions for recasting these sentences for the moment. {bI'reS} - I was intending to use it as a time stamp, as in the {paq'batlh}, however, I'm thinking {wa'DIch} might have been more appropriate here. {Qu'DajvaD ghaH parqu'moH} - I'll explain my thinking here. I was intending to write /(this idea specifically) caused him to really dislike his duty/. I based this on the example of {paqvaD qanejmoH}, but as I'm currently writing this, I'm realizing that this probably falls under the category of the "prefix trick", correct? I was thinking that {ghaH} would be the explicit direct object and {Qu'Daj} would be the explicit indirect object. This obviously didn't work, correct? QImSIr On Sunday, January 15, 2017, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 1/14/2017 8:10 PM, Brian Cote wrote:
roD bIQ yu'eghDaq lIgh, DuQwI' jeqbogh che'wI' nuH'e' 'ochtaHvIS, 'e' luHar ghot law'. 'ej vaj ghaH QeHqu'moH qechna'vam 'ej bI'reS Qu'DajvaD ghaH parqu'moH.
What irritated him most — and it was this that was chiefly responsible for his dissatisfaction with his job — was to hear of the conceptions formed about him: how he was always riding about through the tides with his trident.
I'm still having trouble following this; I think you're sticking too closely to the literal text and not thinking in Klingon about what it means.
*Many people believed he rode regularly on the water-waves, while holding *[I think you meant *'uch,* not *'och*] *the ruler's weapon which protrudes from spikes. And thus this definite idea made him very angry and it made the beginning of his job presentation very much dislike.*
I'm pretty sure you got a couple of subjects and objects mixed up there.
Try taking this paragraph apart in English (or German) into the simplest sentences you can, and list them in bullet-points. Use these points to create your Klingon sentences.
yuQ bIQ'a'Daq ba'taHvIS, SImtaH. 'e' 'oH ghu' teH'e'. rut yupItIr SuchmeH, leng poSayDon. 'e' 'oH DaltaHbe'ghachDaj neH'e'. motlh cheghtaHvIS, QeH.
When all the while he sat here in the depths of the world-ocean, doing figures uninterruptedly, with now and then a trip to Jupiter as the only break in the monotony — a trip, moreover, from which he usually returned in a rage.
*DaltaHbe'ghach** break in the monotony*... very nice!
I'm not going to say that *'e' 'oH **something**'e'* is necessarily wrong, but it feels wrong to me. You could replace the first one, for instance, with *ghu' teH 'oH ghu'vam'e'** this situation is the true situation.* But really you could probably reduce this to using *-bej* in the sentence.
This paragraph is a little less convoluted than the first, but it could still use some working over.
-- SuStelhttp://trimboli.name
On 1/15/2017 9:34 PM, Brian Cote wrote:
ej vaj ghaH QeHqu'moH qechna'vam 'ej bI'reS Qu'DajvaD ghaH parqu'moH.
Disregarding your suggestions for recasting these sentences for the moment.
{bI'reS} - I was intending to use it as a time stamp, as in the {paq'batlh}, however, I'm thinking {wa'DIch} might have been more appropriate here.
*wa'DIch* would have been better. A *bI'reS* is the beginning of some artistic performance, not a job.
{Qu'DajvaD ghaH parqu'moH} - I'll explain my thinking here. I was intending to write /(this idea specifically) caused him to really dislike his duty/. I based this on the example of {paqvaD qanejmoH}, but as I'm currently writing this, I'm realizing that this probably falls under the category of the "prefix trick", correct? I was thinking that {ghaH} would be the explicit direct object and {Qu'Daj} would be the explicit indirect object. This obviously didn't work, correct?
Does *paqvaD qanejmoH* appear in /paq'batlh/? I have only about two-thirds of it typed in and searchable, and what I have already done doesn't contain that phrase. Our first example of how to do this was on a SkyBox card, where the phrase was *ghaHvaD quHDaq qawmoH*/it causes him to remember his heritage./ Following this pattern, your desired sentence would be *ghaHvaD Qu'Daj parqu'moH*/it causes him to really dislike his task./ -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
wa'DIch would have been better. A bI'reS is the beginning of some artistic performance, not a job.
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, paq'batlh (paq'raD, Canto 14, Stanza 6) does give a precedent for using bI'reS as a timestamp. bI'reS qeylIS vaq molor "First, Molor taunted Kahless." Marc Okrand also used it to refer to the beginning of a stretch of time in Message to Kronos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujliyG96Cf8 ghorgh lumuch? poH tuj bI'reS nungbogh wa' jaj qeylIS DIS chorghvatlh loSmaH jav qaStaHvIS. "When [will it be shown], you ask? In the days that follow the summer solstice in the Year of Kahless 846." It's a very strange sentence, both grammatically and in its description of days following the summer solstice ("a day that precedes the beginning of the warm season"), so it's worth taking with some grains of salt. However, it does appear that {poH tuj bI'reS} means "the beginning of the warm season". I do have some *highly* speculative head canon about this usage: I suspect that perhaps, in 24th century tlhIngan Hol, bI'reS only means "beginning (of a play/opera/story/speech/performance/work)". However, perhaps it *used* to mean "beginning" in a more generic sense, and can therefore be be heard in many ghe'naQmey nIt. If so, one can see how it might still sometimes makes it way into modern translations (like paq'batlh) of no' Hol operas, because readers/viewers/listeners are expected to be familiar with it or understand it from context. And perhaps for similar reasons, it is sometimes used when speaking *about* operas; poetically, metaphorically or just pretentiously. Similar to the way you might speak of preludes and crescendos outside of musical contexts. Again, that's highly speculative, but I personally would quite like to keep the word {bI'reS} fairly specific to a performance context, and this would be one possible way of reconciling that with these two canonical examples. ________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 04:26 To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] <<poSayDon>> vImughlI' On 1/15/2017 9:34 PM, Brian Cote wrote: ej vaj ghaH QeHqu'moH qechna'vam 'ej bI'reS Qu'DajvaD ghaH parqu'moH. Disregarding your suggestions for recasting these sentences for the moment. {bI'reS} - I was intending to use it as a time stamp, as in the {paq'batlh}, however, I'm thinking {wa'DIch} might have been more appropriate here. wa'DIch would have been better. A bI'reS is the beginning of some artistic performance, not a job. {Qu'DajvaD ghaH parqu'moH} - I'll explain my thinking here. I was intending to write /(this idea specifically) caused him to really dislike his duty/. I based this on the example of {paqvaD qanejmoH}, but as I'm currently writing this, I'm realizing that this probably falls under the category of the "prefix trick", correct? I was thinking that {ghaH} would be the explicit direct object and {Qu'Daj} would be the explicit indirect object. This obviously didn't work, correct? Does paqvaD qanejmoH appear in paq'batlh? I have only about two-thirds of it typed in and searchable, and what I have already done doesn't contain that phrase. Our first example of how to do this was on a SkyBox card, where the phrase was ghaHvaD quHDaq qawmoH it causes him to remember his heritage. Following this pattern, your desired sentence would be ghaHvaD Qu'Daj parqu'moH it causes him to really dislike his task. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On 1/16/2017 2:03 AM, Felix Malmenbeck wrote:
*wa'DIch* would have been better. A *bI'reS* is the beginning of some artistic performance, not a job.
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, paq'batlh (paq'raD, Canto 14, Stanza 6) does give a precedent for using bI'reS as a timestamp.
bI'reS qeylIS vaq molor
"First, Molor taunted Kahless."
Marc Okrand also used it to refer to the beginning of a stretch of time in Message to Kronos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujliyG96Cf8
ghorgh lumuch? poH tuj bI'reS nungbogh wa' jaj qeylIS DIS chorghvatlh loSmaH jav qaStaHvIS.
"When [will it be shown], you ask? In the days that follow the summer solstice in the Year of Kahless 846."
maj. tawIj vIlughmoH. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
About using words with extended ranges, there are English examples:- "For a kickoff" for "for a start" used where football is not involved. (British usage) "Under my thumb" and "wrapped around my little finger" started in falconry and referred to the route of a hawk's leash when it is sitting on my fist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falconry Usage could easily extend from the start of an opera to the starts of other things. ----Original message----
From : sustel@trimboli.name Date : 16/01/2017 - 15:16 (GMTST) To : tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org Subject : Re: [tlhIngan Hol] <<poSayDon>> vImughlI'
On 1/16/2017 2:03 AM, Felix Malmenbeck wrote:
wa'DIch would have been better. A bI'reS is the beginning of some artistic performance, not a job.
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, paq'batlh (paq'raD, Canto 14, Stanza 6) does give a precedent for using bI'reS as a timestamp. .......
An opera-related English example is "prelude" :: from its meaning "introductory music as the start of an opera", extended uses arose such as:- "The suddenly-starting gusty wind proved to be the prelude to a violent thunderstorm which wiped out the afternoon's planned school sports day." ----Original message----
From : a.appleyard@btinternet.com Date : 17/01/2017 - 05:27 (GMTST) To : tlhingan-hol@kli.org, tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org Subject : Re: [tlhIngan Hol] <<poSayDon>> vImughlI' About using words with extended ranges, there are English examples:- ...
To answer the remainder of your original question, I pulled {paqvaD qanejmoH} off of the "klingon_grammar" page on the Wikipedia. However there was no citation given for where the example of this particular construction came from. QImSIr On Sunday, January 15, 2017, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 1/15/2017 9:34 PM, Brian Cote wrote:
ej vaj ghaH QeHqu'moH qechna'vam 'ej bI'reS Qu'DajvaD ghaH parqu'moH.
Disregarding your suggestions for recasting these sentences for the moment.
{bI'reS} - I was intending to use it as a time stamp, as in the {paq'batlh}, however, I'm thinking {wa'DIch} might have been more appropriate here.
*wa'DIch* would have been better. A *bI'reS* is the beginning of some artistic performance, not a job.
{Qu'DajvaD ghaH parqu'moH} - I'll explain my thinking here. I was intending to write /(this idea specifically) caused him to really dislike his duty/. I based this on the example of {paqvaD qanejmoH}, but as I'm currently writing this, I'm realizing that this probably falls under the category of the "prefix trick", correct? I was thinking that {ghaH} would be the explicit direct object and {Qu'Daj} would be the explicit indirect object. This obviously didn't work, correct?
Does *paqvaD qanejmoH* appear in *paq'batlh*? I have only about two-thirds of it typed in and searchable, and what I have already done doesn't contain that phrase.
Our first example of how to do this was on a SkyBox card, where the phrase was *ghaHvaD quHDaq qawmoH** it causes him to remember his heritage.* Following this pattern, your desired sentence would be *ghaHvaD Qu'Daj parqu'moH** it causes him to really dislike his task.*
-- SuStelhttp://trimboli.name
So spent the day working the first paragraph of <<poSayDon>>. There are still a few rough spots, I think, but I believe it's an improvement. Looking forward to your comments. vummeH raSDajDaq ba'taH poSayDon 'ej SImtaH. Hoch bIQmey loH not 'e' mev: boQ law' rItlaH, mI'chaj vuSbe'lu', 'ej SaHbej HochHom chaH, 'ach ghaHvaD potlhqu'mo' Qu'Daj, Hoch Simqa' poSayDon, 'ej vaj ghaHvaD ram QaHchaj. Qu'Daj tIvbe'ba' poSayDon. ghaHvaD poQlu'mo', vum ghaH. pIj <<QuchmoHbogh Qu'>> tlhob -- mu'meyvetlh pup lo' -- 'ej DuHmey Sar chuplu', 'ach ghaHvaD nIvqu'mo' Qu'Daj wa'DIch, lajbe' ghaH. reH che'wI' ratlhnISmo' poSayDon, Qatlh Qu' pIm tu'meH mIw. ghaHvaD yapbe'bej wa' bIQ neH yer. Qu' chu' lajchugh, ngajchoHbe' SImmeH mIw: ramchoH neH 'oH. bIQDaq 'oHbe'taHbogh Qu''e' chuplu'chugh, ropmoH qechvam: Qun tlhuHDaj nISchoHlu', 'ej QomchoH roDaj Hosghaj. bep poSayDon, 'ach ghaH Harbej pagh: QeHDI' HoSghajqu'wI', ghaH yonmoHlu' net nIDnIS, 'ej ghaytanHa' 'oHchugh Qapla', vaj ghaHvaD ghetnISlu'. Qu'Daj choHbej poSayDon 'e' qel pagh. qa'vam bIQmey Qun'a' gheS ghaH, 'ej vaj ratlhnIStaH. Poseidon sat at his desk, doing figures. The administration of all the waters gave him endless work. He could have had assistants, as many as he wanted — and he did have very many — but since he took his job very seriously, he would in the end go over all the figures and calculations himself, and thus his assistants were of little help to him. It cannot be said that he enjoyed his work; he did it only because it had been assigned to him; in fact, he had already filed many petitions for — as he put it — more cheerful work, but every time the offer of something different was made to him it would turn out that nothing suited him quite as well as his present position. And anyhow it was quite difficult to find something different for him. After all, it was impossible to assign him to a particular sea; aside from the fact that even then the work with figures would not become less but only pettier, the great Poseidon could in any case occupy only an executive position. And when a job away from the water was offered to him he would get sick at the very prospect, his divine breathing would become troubled and his brazen chest began to tremble. Besides, his complaints were not really taken seriously; when one of the mighty is vexatious the appearance of an effort must be made to placate him, even when the case is most hopeless. In actuality a shift of posts was unthinkable for Poseidon — he had been appointed God of the Sea in the beginning, and that he had to remain QimSIr
On 1/17/2017 11:13 PM, Brian Cote wrote:
So spent the day working the first paragraph of <<poSayDon>>. There are still a few rough spots, I think, but I believe it's an improvement. Looking forward to your comments.
vummeH raSDajDaq ba'taH poSayDon 'ej SImtaH. Hoch bIQmey loH not 'e' mev:
I think I'd turn this around: *not mev Hoch bIQmey loH*/the administration of all the waters never stopped./
boQ law' rItlaH, mI'chaj vuSbe'lu', 'ej SaHbej HochHom chaH,
This gets confusing between *SaH* /be present/ and *SaH*/care about./ I don't see any way to determine which verb you mean without reference to the original. How about this: *'ej boQrup boQwI' law'qu'*/and very many aides were ready to assist./
'ach ghaHvaD potlhqu'mo' Qu'Daj, Hoch Simqa' poSayDon, 'ej vaj ghaHvaD ram QaHchaj. Qu'Daj tIvbe'ba' poSayDon. ghaHvaD poQlu'mo', vum ghaH.
I'm not sure I agree with *ghaHvaD poQlu'mo'*/because it was required for him./ And it doesn't include the idea that he "only" did it because it was assigned, that he would do something else if it weren't assigned. Say rather something like: *ghaHvaD Qu' noblu'pu'mo' ta' 'ach ta' neHbe'*/he did the job because it has been given to him but he didn't want to do it./
pIj <<QuchmoHbogh Qu'>> tlhob -- mu'meyvetlh pup lo' --
I think *mu'meyvetlh pup* means /those words, which are perfect,**/rather than /those words exactly./ How about *mu'meyna'vetlh*?
'ej DuHmey Sar chuplu',
*luchuplu'*
'ach ghaHvaD nIvqu'mo' Qu'Daj wa'DIch,
I'm not totally pleased with this phrase, and I can't quite say why. I think I'd rather see a comparative sentence here.
lajbe' ghaH. reH che'wI' ratlhnISmo' poSayDon, Qatlh Qu' pIm tu'meH mIw. ghaHvaD yapbe'bej wa' bIQ neH yer. Qu' chu' lajchugh, ngajchoHbe' SImmeH mIw: ramchoH neH 'oH. bIQDaq 'oHbe'taHbogh Qu''e' chuplu'chugh, ropmoH qechvam: Qun tlhuHDaj nISchoHlu', 'ej QomchoH roDaj Hosghaj. bep poSayDon, 'ach ghaH Harbej pagh:
I'd simplify this to *bepDI' poSayDon Harbej pagh.*
QeHDI' HoSghajqu'wI', ghaH yonmoHlu' net nIDnIS, 'ej ghaytanHa' 'oHchugh Qapla', vaj ghaHvaD ghetnISlu'.
This is a little confusing. I'm especially uncertain about the grammaticality of *ghaytanHa' 'oHchugh Qapla'.* Maybe we could just say this*: **QeHDI' HoSghajqu'wI' yonmoHlu' net nIDnIS, vabDot yonmoHlaHbe'ba'chugh vay'.*
Qu'Daj choHbej poSayDon 'e' qel pagh.
I don't think you could use *-bej* here. You're not saying Poseidon will certainly change his job. You might put the *-bej* on *qel,* though.
qa'vam bIQmey Qun'a' gheS ghaH, 'ej vaj ratlhnIStaH.
Poseidon sat at his desk, doing figures. The administration of all the waters gave him endless work. He could have had assistants, as many as he wanted — and he did have very many — but since he took his job very seriously, he would in the end go over all the figures and calculations himself, and thus his assistants were of little help to him. It cannot be said that he enjoyed his work; he did it only because it had been assigned to him; in fact, he had already filed many petitions for — as he put it — more cheerful work, but every time the offer of something different was made to him it would turn out that nothing suited him quite as well as his present position. And anyhow it was quite difficult to find something different for him. After all, it was impossible to assign him to a particular sea; aside from the fact that even then the work with figures would not become less but only pettier, the great Poseidon could in any case occupy only an executive position. And when a job away from the water was offered to him he would get sick at the very prospect, his divine breathing would become troubled and his brazen chest began to tremble. Besides, his complaints were not really taken seriously; when one of the mighty is vexatious the appearance of an effort must be made to placate him, even when the case is most hopeless. In actuality a shift of posts was unthinkable for Poseidon — he had been appointed God of the Sea in the beginning, and that he had to remain
QimSIr
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-- SuStel http://trimboli.name
maj! At the risk of igniting this discussion again, I'd considered using {vabDot} where you suggested, but I'd thought it was still a bit risky to use. Was I incorrect? QImSIr
On 1/19/2017 7:58 PM, Brian Cote wrote:
maj!
At the risk of igniting this discussion again, I'd considered using {vabDot} where you suggested, but I'd thought it was still a bit risky to use. Was I incorrect?
No, it's risky, but it's a different kind of risk than using, say, some experimental or unproved form of grammar. The word means /something,/ whereas some piece of funky grammar may be meaningless. The risk is that *vabDot* may not mean what we think it means. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
DaHjaj <<poSayDon>> cha'DIch 'ay' vImughqa'. Hogh nung /D&D campaign/ chu' vIghItlhchoHlI'! QImSIr
participants (4)
-
Anthony Appleyard -
Brian Cote -
Felix Malmenbeck -
SuStel