On 1/9/2019 9:54 AM, Alan Anderson wrote:

...

I mean, who actually gives a crap how the others are doing anyway.. Don’t confuse “not asking as part of starting a conversation” with “not caring”. There’s nothing wrong with niceties in Klingon if you really mean them.

Right. The idea is that you honor a Klingon by dealing straight with them, not beating around the bush, possibly deceiving or manipulating them. Klingons appreciate this straightforwardness. Thus, in one example when the Terran in /Power Klingon/ successfully concludes a deal by being straightforward, the Klingon says *batlh malja' DaHuq,* and in the other he says *Ha'! DaH matlhutlh.* The deal concluded, potential problems avoided, the participants are now free to engage in pleasantries, secure in the knowledge that no one is trying to get one over on them. But since they're already waaaaay past the "Hi, nice day, can we talk" stage, those aren't things one would have any reason to say. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name

On 1/9/2019 11:02 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:

Am 09.01.2019 um 15:34 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:

...

QISmaS = christmas christmas = christ + mas QISmaS = QIS + maS

So..

christ = QIS

In addition to what others have said, I'd like to mention that this is a phonetic transliteration, not one of meaning. So I mean that QISmaS fits the sound of christmas, which is something like kris-mas. The word "christ" is not "kris" in English, it's [kraist].

So if you stay in the game, a Klingon might have headr of christmas and then call it with his words {QISmaS}. I he was told that this is the "birth of Jesus Christ", he'd probably remember it as "QayIS" or so - but definitely not {QIS}.

I doubt that reasoning. We see transliterations between English and Klingon drop sounds all the time. /France/ -> *vIraS...* What happened to the /n?/ I certainly would not assume that every Klingon in isolation would transliterate between the two languages the same way every time. A Klingon might easily transliterate /Christ/ as *QIS,* possibly because they already know the transliteration *QISmaS.* How exactly do you spell the Jewish Festival of Lights in English? I could imagine a Klingon hearing *QISmaS,* hearing that some guy named Christ is involved, not thinking too carefully about it, and assuming that the holiday is /Christ Moon./ -- SuStel http://trimboli.name

On 1/9/2019 11:45 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:

Am 09.01.2019 um 17:16 schrieb SuStel:

...

I doubt that reasoning.

Of course you do. I didn't expect anything else. ;-)

If you didn't say things like that we wouldn't argue nearly as much.

We see transliterations between English and

...

Klingon drop sounds all the time. /France/ -> *vIraS...* What happened to the /n?/

Okrand did so because the N is not a spoken sound:

"For "France," pronounced in French, the "n" also indicates nasalization — it's not pronounced as an individual sound — so, for Klingon, I just skipped it: vIraS (not vIranIs or something like that). I followed the same line of thinking for mIyama (rather than mIyanma)."

(Marc Okrand, qepHom 2016)

Fair enough. Now explain why /Enterprise /is transliterated *'entepray'* without the first /r/ or the /s/ — or /with/ the final *'.*

...

I could imagine a Klingon hearing *QISmaS,* hearing that some guy named Christ is involved, not thinking too carefully about it, and assuming that the holiday is /Christ Moon./

I actually do not seen that a foreigner would immediately see the connection between the person "kra-yist" and the event of "kris-mes". And I really have a lot of exerience with foreigners switching languages and misunderstandings based on just that.

I said in my premise that the Klingon heard that some guy named Christ is involved in *QISmaS.* What I said follows from that; don't ignore it. If we assume a Klingon who has heard of *QISmaS* and has heard of Christ, but not that the two are related, I would not conclude that the Klingon would make the connection. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name

On Jan 9, 2019, at 12:07, Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net> wrote:

...

On Jan 9, 2019, at 11:16 AM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:

We see transliterations between English and Klingon drop sounds all the time. France -> vIraS... What happened to the n?

Assuming you’re serious:

It was never there in the first place. The French “an” is a vowel, most closely approximated in Klingon as {a}.

Perhaps a Qotmagh speaker saying {vIraS} might come closer to the French pronunciation than an English speaker saying “France”, at least as far as the vowel is concerned.

-- ghunchu'wI' _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org