No. I would understand it as a person who is asking. I would also use it if I was talking about e.g. someone who asks a question after a conference talk. But I've always been struggling a bit when in need for a word meaning 'question'. The best I could come up with is: {mu'tlhegh ghellu'bogh}, lit. 'sentence that someone asks'. Note that the plural of that would be {mu'tlheghmey lughellu'bogh} (though you could leave out the {-mey}). ;) It's better to find another expression, perhaps only involving the verb {ghel} 'to ask'. - André 2017-09-05 14:32 GMT+02:00 mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>:
Would you accept the word {ghelwI'} for "question" ?
qunnoq
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maj. However, if one of the meanings given by the {-wI'} is "thing which does/is", then why not translate {ghelwI'} as "thing which asks"/"thing which is asking" i.e. a question ? qunnoq On Sep 5, 2017 15:48, "André Müller" <esperantist@gmail.com> wrote:
No. I would understand it as a person who is asking. I would also use it if I was talking about e.g. someone who asks a question after a conference talk.
But I've always been struggling a bit when in need for a word meaning 'question'. The best I could come up with is: {mu'tlhegh ghellu'bogh}, lit. 'sentence that someone asks'. Note that the plural of that would be {mu'tlheghmey lughellu'bogh} (though you could leave out the {-mey}). ;)
It's better to find another expression, perhaps only involving the verb {ghel} 'to ask'.
- André
2017-09-05 14:32 GMT+02:00 mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>:
Would you accept the word {ghelwI'} for "question" ?
qunnoq
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Am 05.09.2017 um 14:54 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
However, if one of the meanings given by the {-wI'} is "thing which does/is", then why not translate {ghelwI'} as "thing which asks"/"thing which is asking" i.e. a question ?
Think or the suffix as the english suffix "-er" as in "teacher" or "worker". A {ghelwI'} is literally "asker". I won't say it's wrong because we do not know it, but it sounds in my ears as saying "I have an asker". In HolQeD, Okrand explains about {ghel} and {tlhob} that "There's the "ask" where you ask a question and there's "ask" where you make a request. " From this, I understand that it's a PERSON who is asking. The "question" is not asking, the person is. So a {ghelwI'} must be a person. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net
lieven:
Think or the suffix as the english suffix "-er"
I didn't know this; so the translation of {-wI'} is "-er", regardless it refers to a person or an object ? qunnoq On Sep 5, 2017 16:08, "Lieven" <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 05.09.2017 um 14:54 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
However, if one of the meanings given by the {-wI'} is "thing which does/is", then why not translate {ghelwI'} as "thing which asks"/"thing which is asking" i.e. a question ?
Think or the suffix as the english suffix "-er" as in "teacher" or "worker". A {ghelwI'} is literally "asker". I won't say it's wrong because we do not know it, but it sounds in my ears as saying "I have an asker".
In HolQeD, Okrand explains about {ghel} and {tlhob} that "There's the "ask" where you ask a question and there's "ask" where you make a request. "
From this, I understand that it's a PERSON who is asking. The "question" is not asking, the person is. So a {ghelwI'} must be a person.
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Am 05.09.2017 um 15:16 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
I didn't know this; so the translation of {-wI'} is "-er", regardless it refers to a person or an object ?
No, I didn't say that. It was a hint to remember. TKD says that "The English suffix "-er" [...] is a rough equivalent." Plese check my other mail where I explain that the subject of {ghel} seems to be the person who is asking. Regarding your question on {-wI'}, there are many words which can have double meanings - maybe even all. For instance, a {ghItlhwI'} can be a pen, but also a person who writes. A {DuDwI'} is described as a mixer, but of course it can be a person who is mixing the sauce. So theoretically, the {ghelwI'} might indeed be a sentence, but it just sounds strange. The sentence does not ask the question, it IS the question. I wouldn't use that unless Maltz tells us that it's okay to do so. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Type9VerbSuffixes
A {ghelwI'} could also be a device: e.g. an automated instruction machine (we saw one asking the resurrected Spock questions in ST4) or that part of an automatic teller (cash point) that asks you for your PIN number (the one I use "speaks" both English and Spanish!). I agree with Lieven, *{ghelwI' / jangwI'} as "question/answer" feels wrong. Is an utterance a "thing which does X" in Klingon? {mutlhegh}, {mu'}, {wot}, {DIp} and {chuvmey} are probably referred to as {'oH / bIH} - they're obviously not sentient - but I'm not sure if that's the same thing. ghel pagh ghelbe'. DaH mu'tlheghvam vIqelnIS. <g> --Voragh -----Original Message----- From: Lieven Am 05.09.2017 um 15:16 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
I didn't know this; so the translation of {-wI'} is "-er", regardless it refers to a person or an object ?
No, I didn't say that. It was a hint to remember. TKD says that "The English suffix "-er" [...] is a rough equivalent." Plese check my other mail where I explain that the subject of {ghel} seems to be the person who is asking. Regarding your question on {-wI'}, there are many words which can have double meanings - maybe even all. For instance, a {ghItlhwI'} can be a pen, but also a person who writes. A {DuDwI'} is described as a mixer, but of course it can be a person who is mixing the sauce. So theoretically, the {ghelwI'} might indeed be a sentence, but it just sounds strange. The sentence does not ask the question, it IS the question. I wouldn't use that unless Maltz tells us that it's okay to do so. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh
Am 05.09.2017 um 14:32 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
Would you accept the word {ghelwI'} for "question" ?
Am 05.09.2017 um 14:47 schrieb André Müller:
No. I would understand it as a person who is asking.
Exactly. Same for {jangwI'}.
But I've always been struggling a bit when in need for a word meaning 'question'. The best I could come up with is: {mu'tlhegh ghellu'bogh}, lit. 'sentence that someone asks'.
And even in this case, it sounds like somebody is stating a question TO the sentence, so expecting the sentence to give an answer. You "ask" a person, not a phrase. If you insist using a noun phrase, I sugest turing that around, i.e. {ghelbogh mu'tlhegh} "asking sentence".
It's better to find another expression, perhaps only involving the verb {ghel} 'to ask'.
Yes, indeed. Klingon is action-related. Don't say "I have a question", but say "I want to ask". There is nothing wrong with that, and it usually works: {jIghel vIneH}. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net
and I ask again.. "..However, if one of the meanings given by the {-wI'} is "thing which does/is", then why not translate {ghelwI'} as "thing which asks"/"thing which is asking" i.e. a question ?.." qunnoq On Sep 5, 2017 16:02, "Lieven" <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 05.09.2017 um 14:32 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
Would you accept the word {ghelwI'} for "question" ?
Am 05.09.2017 um 14:47 schrieb André Müller:
No. I would understand it as a person who is asking.
Exactly. Same for {jangwI'}.
But I've always been struggling a bit when in need for a word meaning 'question'. The best I could come up with is: {mu'tlhegh ghellu'bogh}, lit. 'sentence that someone asks'.
And even in this case, it sounds like somebody is stating a question TO the sentence, so expecting the sentence to give an answer.
You "ask" a person, not a phrase.
If you insist using a noun phrase, I sugest turing that around, i.e. {ghelbogh mu'tlhegh} "asking sentence".
It's better to find another expression, perhaps only involving the verb {ghel} 'to ask'.
Yes, indeed. Klingon is action-related.
Don't say "I have a question", but say "I want to ask". There is nothing wrong with that, and it usually works: {jIghel vIneH}.
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 9/5/2017 9:04 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
and I ask again..
"..However, if one of the meanings given by the {-wI'} is "thing which does/is", then why not translate {ghelwI'} as "thing which asks"/"thing which is asking" i.e. a question ?.."
It has been pointed out to you that *ghelwI'* might indeed be translated as the question itself, in the same way that a *ghItlhwI'* might be a person writing or a pen writing. However, this is assuming that a question is a thing that can /ask./ One might say a question is nothing but an utterance that conveys the asking of a person. The question is not asking a question. We don't know how Klingons view this linguistically. When you used it in another thread, I understood what you were saying, but that's not the same as saying it's the right way to say it. In a neutral context, I'd be much more inclined to assume a *ghelwI'* is a person or device asking a question than the question itself. Since you can easily avoid the problem by not trying to turn /question/ into a Klingon noun (/I have a question/ --> *jIghelnIS*), it's best to chalk this up to "we don't know" and leave it at that. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 9:02 AM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
If you insist using a noun phrase, I sugest turing that around, i.e. {ghelbogh mu'tlhegh} "asking sentence".
I feel like this suggestion is still off, but it seems close to a more correct answer: {ghelmeH mu'tlhegh}.
Am 05.09.2017 um 16:30 schrieb nIqolay Q:
I feel like this suggestion is still off, but it seems close to a more correct answer: {ghelmeH mu'tlhegh}.
You're right. A sentence cannot ask a question, so {ghelbogh} is not the best choice. {ghelmeH mu'tlhegh} describes it better. Nevertheless, a literal use of this sounds very strange: {ghelmeH mu'tlhegh vIghaj} "I have a sentence for asking" makes me think of someone who discovered a piece of paper with a phrase written on it: "Hey look! I have a question. What do you have?" -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net
participants (6)
-
André Müller -
Lieven -
mayqel qunenoS -
nIqolay Q -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel