Expressing "because of this additional"
I want to say "because of this additional reason". From the two choices: {latlhvam meqmo'} {latlh meqvammo'} Which is the correct one ? ~ gho'at qIj
On Fri, 22 Feb 2019 at 15:36, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
I want to say "because of this additional reason".
Don't translate partial sentences. Give us the full context. Maybe there's a better way to express the idea.
From the two choices:
{latlhvam meqmo'}
{latlh meqvammo'}
Which is the correct one ?
"because of the reason of this other one" "because of this reason of another one" I dunno, which one do you think is "correct"? I think you're trying to cram too many things together and you need to split things up, for example like this: latlh meq tu'lu'. meqvammo'... -- De'vID
De'vID:
Don't translate partial sentences. Give us
the full contex
The context in which this came to mind, was when earlier today, I was thinking: "because of this additional reason, I need today to go to the office". I like your idea of splitting it into two sentences. I'm still wondering though, if it could be said in just one. ~ gho'at qIj
On 2/22/2019 10:41 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
De'vID:
Don't translate partial sentences. Give us
the full contex
The context in which this came to mind, was when earlier today, I was thinking: "because of this additional reason, I need today to go to the office".
I like your idea of splitting it into two sentences. I'm still wondering though, if it could be said in just one.
/Additional reason/ is *latlh meq.* /Because of this thing/ is *Dochvammo'.* Substitute /additional reason/ in for /thing:/ *latlh meqvammo'*/because of this additional reason./ Don't get confused by English (or Greek!) word order. The /because of/ and /this/ apply to the entire phrase /additional reason./ There is no independent phrase /this additional/ here, for instance. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
yaHwIj mughoSmoH meqvam cha’DIch. Or maybe: jIHvaD yaHwIj ghoSmoH meqvam cha’DIch. It’s easy to forget that {latlh} is a noun and not quite the grammatical equivalent of the English word “other”. I suspect we overuse it when alternatives would be clearer. Sent from my iPhone. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan
On Feb 22, 2019, at 10:41 AM, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
De'vID:
Don't translate partial sentences. Give us the full contex
The context in which this came to mind, was when earlier today, I was thinking: "because of this additional reason, I need today to go to the office".
I like your idea of splitting it into two sentences. I'm still wondering though, if it could be said in just one.
~ gho'at qIj
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On 2/22/2019 10:54 AM, Will Martin wrote:
It’s easy to forget that {latlh} is a noun and not quite the grammatical equivalent of the English word “other”. I suspect we overuse it when alternatives would be clearer.
Some canonical uses of *latlh* that are unambiguously not//as a standalone noun... *HeghDI' tlhIngan SuvwI' pagh tlhIngan SuvwI' HoHlu'DI' Heghtay lulop latlh tlhInganpu'. */When a Klingon warrior dies or is killed, other Klingons may perform a ceremonial howl or yell as part of the Klingon death ritual./ (SkyBox S31) *latlh HIvje'Daq 'Iw HIq bIr yIqang! */Pour the cold bloodwine into another glass! /(KGT) *latlh HIvje'Daq 'Iw HIq bIr vIqang/ /*/I pour //the cold bloodwine into another glass/ (KGT) *QIt wa’ qa’ nuD veqlargh QIt latlh qa’ nuD veqlargh Hegh lurur mInDu’Daj */Fek’lhr inspects them, One by one, With his deadly glance./ (PB) *Sepvetlh latlh DopDaq Hatlh lengtaHvIS qeylIS lutlhej tlhInganpu’ Hem mI’ nIb */On the other side of the land, Kahless traveled the lands With an equal number of proud Klingons./ (PB — notice the /other side,/ which was being talked about before) *vIHbe’choH latlh SuvwI’pu’ bey HoS QoymeH ‘IjmeH QamtaH*/* *//The rest of the warriors stopped, They stood and listened, To hear the mighty howl./ (PB) Okrand seems to be fairly free with his use of *latlh.* When modifying another noun, it sometimes means some unspecified extra number, sometimes it means one other, it sometimes means the next one, it sometimes means all the remaining somethings, and it sometimes means the opposite version of something. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
I concede the point. Okrand has a very slippery range of use for {latlh}. Sometimes, it makes sense in terms of it being a stand-alone noun in a noun-noun genitive construction. Perhaps most often, it does make sense interpreted that way. Then again, there are times when it’s more like he just took the English phrase “other [noun]” and replaced it with {latlh [noun]} in the Klingon sentence. It rubs me the wrong way that he does stuff like this, that makes translation easier by not being grammatically consistent with what a noun is supposed to be doing in the language with a word he has only defined as a noun. It’s like having all aliens look like humans wearing prosthetics, or like being able to breathe on every planet they land on and having Earth-like gravity on every planet they go to. It’s a step towards sloppy translation, and it doesn’t stick to the fictional culture with grippy-enough feet. It’s just kinda ugly, making me look for alternatives, even if doing it this way is perfectly acceptable. It’s not my standard for the list, but it is my standard for myself. I just don’t enjoy using a noun as if it were an English adjective, preserving English word order because English has a word that is both a noun and an adjective, while Klingon supposedly doesn’t. “On the other hand”. In English, “other” is not a noun. If {latlh} were an adjectival verb meaning “be other”, then it would follow the noun it modifies. But no. It just goes before the other noun because that’s how it happens in English. We can be that sloppy. It’s okay. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Feb 22, 2019, at 11:13 AM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 2/22/2019 10:54 AM, Will Martin wrote:
It’s easy to forget that {latlh} is a noun and not quite the grammatical equivalent of the English word “other”. I suspect we overuse it when alternatives would be clearer.
Some canonical uses of latlh that are unambiguously not as a standalone noun...
HeghDI' tlhIngan SuvwI' pagh tlhIngan SuvwI' HoHlu'DI' Heghtay lulop latlh tlhInganpu'. When a Klingon warrior dies or is killed, other Klingons may perform a ceremonial howl or yell as part of the Klingon death ritual. (SkyBox S31)
latlh HIvje'Daq 'Iw HIq bIr yIqang! Pour the cold bloodwine into another glass! (KGT)
latlh HIvje'Daq 'Iw HIq bIr vIqang I pour the cold bloodwine into another glass (KGT)
QIt wa’ qa’ nuD veqlargh QIt latlh qa’ nuD veqlargh Hegh lurur mInDu’Daj Fek’lhr inspects them, One by one, With his deadly glance. (PB)
Sepvetlh latlh DopDaq Hatlh lengtaHvIS qeylIS lutlhej tlhInganpu’ Hem mI’ nIb On the other side of the land, Kahless traveled the lands With an equal number of proud Klingons. (PB — notice the other side, which was being talked about before)
vIHbe’choH latlh SuvwI’pu’ bey HoS QoymeH ‘IjmeH QamtaH The rest of the warriors stopped, They stood and listened, To hear the mighty howl. (PB)
Okrand seems to be fairly free with his use of latlh. When modifying another noun, it sometimes means some unspecified extra number, sometimes it means one other, it sometimes means the next one, it sometimes means all the remaining somethings, and it sometimes means the opposite version of something.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name <http://trimboli.name/>_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
participants (4)
-
De'vID -
mayqel qunen'oS -
SuStel -
Will Martin