Skybox 1 has (among other sentences) the following phrase: {juHqo' Qo'noSvo' loghDaq lengtaHvIS tlhInganpu'} with the translation "..expansion of the klingon people from their homeworld of kronos into space.." Shouldn't the "from their homeworld of kronos" be given as {Qo'noS juHqo'vo'} instead of {juHqo' Qo'noSvo'} ? ~ m. qunen'oS I find irregularities in ca'non disturbing
On 4/4/2019 9:08 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
Skybox 1 has (among other sentences) the following phrase:
{juHqo' Qo'noSvo' loghDaq lengtaHvIS tlhInganpu'} with the translation "..expansion of the klingon people from their homeworld of kronos into space.."
Shouldn't the "from their homeworld of kronos" be given as {Qo'noS juHqo'vo'} instead of {juHqo' Qo'noSvo'} ?
Not really. *juHqo' Qo'noSvo'* is just an example of apposition. /From Kronos, the homeworld./ What's interesting about this to me is that a *-vo'* isn't added to both words. If I were writing this sentence I would have said *juHqo'vo' Qo'noSvo'**.* You can imagine a comma between the two words. Lacking a *-vo'* on *juHqo',* and the way type 5 suffixes migrate to the ends of verbs, suggest to me that type 5 noun suffixes act more like clitics than simple noun inflections. You're going to ask me what a clitic <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitic> is. Basically, it's a morpheme that is more than an affix, kind of like its own word, but it can't exist on its own. A prominent example is possession in English: we add /-'s/ to words to indicate possession. It's not a simple inflection, because the /-'s/ can encompass entire phrases: /We went to the Queen of England's castle./ The Queen is the possessor of the castle, but the phrase /of England/ gets included in the phrase that is the possessor. /The Queen's castle; the Queen of England's castle./ -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
A similar example with another Type 5 suffix is: tlhIngan juHqo'Daq tlhIng yoSDaq 'oH toQDuj chenmoHlu'meH Daq wa'DIch'e' 1st Construction Site: The Kling District, Klingon Home World. (KBoP) Note it’s not the same thing as it’s not apposition but specificity or precision – is there a better grammatical/linguistic term? -- like a mailing address: Apartment 4B, 1234 Blackstone Street, Chicago, Illinois, U.S.A. (In some countries the order of elements on an envelope is reversed.) Another example of repeating the suffix (also not apposition) is: poSDaq nIHDaq je QamtaHvIS SuvwI'pu', chaH jojDaq yItnIS lopwI' The initiate must pass through a gauntlet of warriors. (S9) (“while warriors stand on the left [side] and on the right [side], the celebrant must walk [in the area] between them”) Yet another example is: tIngvo' 'evDaq chanDaq all around, all over (the place) (st.k 11/21/1999) (“from area-southwestward to area-northwestward to area eastward) Again this is not apposition, but sequence: from A to B to C. Can anyone think of other examples where the same suffix appears on both elements of an appositional phrase? -- Voragh Ca'Non Master of the Klingons From: SuStel On 4/4/2019 9:08 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote: Skybox 1 has (among other sentences) the following phrase: {juHqo' Qo'noSvo' loghDaq lengtaHvIS tlhInganpu'} with the translation "..expansion of the klingon people from their homeworld of kronos into space.." Shouldn't the "from their homeworld of kronos" be given as {Qo'noS juHqo'vo'} instead of {juHqo' Qo'noSvo'} ? Not really. juHqo' Qo'noSvo' is just an example of apposition. From Kronos, the homeworld. What's interesting about this to me is that a -vo' isn't added to both words. If I were writing this sentence I would have said juHqo'vo' Qo'noSvo'. You can imagine a comma between the two words. Lacking a -vo' on juHqo', and the way type 5 suffixes migrate to the ends of verbs, suggest to me that type 5 noun suffixes act more like clitics than simple noun inflections.
On Thu, 4 Apr 2019 at 15:28, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 4/4/2019 9:08 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
Skybox 1 has (among other sentences) the following phrase:
{juHqo' Qo'noSvo' loghDaq lengtaHvIS tlhInganpu'} with the translation "..expansion of the klingon people from their homeworld of kronos into space.."
Shouldn't the "from their homeworld of kronos" be given as {Qo'noS juHqo'vo'} instead of {juHqo' Qo'noSvo'} ?
Not really. *juHqo' Qo'noSvo'* is just an example of apposition. *From Kronos, the homeworld.*
What's interesting about this to me is that a *-vo'* isn't added to both words. If I were writing this sentence I would have said *juHqo'vo' Qo'noSvo'**.*
Without knowing beforehand what {Qo'noS} was, I'd have interpreted this to mean that {Qo'noS} was a part of {juHqo'}. Compare, e.g., {tera'vo' qa'naDa'vo'...} and {*juHSep qa'naDa'vo'}. -- De'vID
participants (4)
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De'vID -
mayqel qunen'oS -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel