Hello, a while ago, De'vID pointed me to this German author who published his bedtime story in over sixty languages as a bilingual book. It was quickly decided that this needs to be done in Klingon, and now I can proudly tell you that it's finished. It's a very short story and absolutely not related to Klingons, but if you are searching for a special christmas gift, or just like to read a Klingon story to your toddler, this is certainly a good thing to have. The most notable fact is that it's available in any possible combination of those sixty languages. So if you wish to have it Persian-Klingon, just go to the website and order your book. More details and links can be found in the Klingon Wiki: http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/SleepTightLittleWolf rIn. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.net/wolf/
Am 10.12.2019 um 16:49 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS:
But why translate "wolf" as {ngavyaw'} ?
Becaue I think it's larger than a {qovIj}. But after all, it's just my personal decision. Any discussion about where the line is will lead to nothing. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/SleepTightLittleWolf
On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 11:05 AM mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
lieven:
Becaue I think it's larger than a {qovIj}.
maj. I was just wondering, whether 'oqranD had added to {ngavyaw'} the additional meaning of "wolf"..
Technically, it's not a wolf or any Terran animal at all. It's supposed to refer to the canine-like animals that accompanied the guards on Rura Penthe, which Memory Alpha calls "jackal mastiffs". If you were writing Klingon "in-character", you'd use *tera' qovIj* or *tera' ngavyaw'* to refer to Earth animals using Klingon analogues, but sometimes people drop the *tera'* if they're talking about day-to-day experiences with Earth animals. There's no chance for confusion, since *ngavyaw'mey* do not, strictly speaking, actually exist. There's no official distinction yet for whether a given Earth canine would be a *tera' qovIj* or a *tera'* *ngavyaw'*. Many people who make a distinction seem to base their reasoning on the size of the Earth animal, and also the puns. (We know that a *qovIj* is smaller than a *ngavyaw'*. *ngavyaw'* is a pun based on a literary wolf dog, whereas *qovIj* is a pun based off a stereotypical pet dog name.) Using *ngavyaw'* for a wolf isn't exactly canon. It's probably closer to the unofficial but widespread use of *jabbI'ID* "data transmission" as a term for "email".
Everyone in this discussion so far has assumed that the Klingon translator chose to translate the English word “wolf” as {ngavyaw’}. I suggest that when translated from the original Klingon, a human translator chose to translate {ngavyaw’} as the English word “wolf”. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Dec 10, 2019, at 11:35 AM, nIqolay Q <niqolay0@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 11:05 AM mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com <mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com>> wrote: lieven:
Becaue I think it's larger than a {qovIj}.
maj. I was just wondering, whether 'oqranD had added to {ngavyaw'} the additional meaning of "wolf"..
Technically, it's not a wolf or any Terran animal at all. It's supposed to refer to the canine-like animals that accompanied the guards on Rura Penthe, which Memory Alpha calls "jackal mastiffs". If you were writing Klingon "in-character", you'd use tera' qovIj or tera' ngavyaw' to refer to Earth animals using Klingon analogues, but sometimes people drop the tera' if they're talking about day-to-day experiences with Earth animals. There's no chance for confusion, since ngavyaw'mey do not, strictly speaking, actually exist.
There's no official distinction yet for whether a given Earth canine would be a tera' qovIj or a tera' ngavyaw'. Many people who make a distinction seem to base their reasoning on the size of the Earth animal, and also the puns. (We know that a qovIj is smaller than a ngavyaw'. ngavyaw' is a pun based on a literary wolf dog, whereas qovIj is a pun based off a stereotypical pet dog name.) Using ngavyaw' for a wolf isn't exactly canon. It's probably closer to the unofficial but widespread use of jabbI'ID "data transmission" as a term for "email".
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On 12/10/2019 12:04 PM, Will Martin wrote:
Everyone in this discussion so far has assumed that the Klingon translator chose to translate the English word “wolf” as {ngavyaw’}.
I suggest that when translated from the original Klingon, a human translator chose to translate {ngavyaw’} as the English word “wolf”.
There is no premise here that the original was written in Klingon and that it was translated into English. It's specifically a many-languages translation of a German book about things that happen on Earth. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 at 18:36, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 12/10/2019 12:04 PM, Will Martin wrote:
Everyone in this discussion so far has assumed that the Klingon translator chose to translate the English word “wolf” as {ngavyaw’}.
I suggest that when translated from the original Klingon, a human translator chose to translate {ngavyaw’} as the English word “wolf”.
There is no premise here that the original was written in Klingon and that it was translated into English. It's specifically a many-languages translation of a German book about things that happen on Earth.
Furthermore, it's a children's book with lots of pictures which leaves very little doubt as to what the animal is supposed to be. -- De'vID
This would be the ideal thread, for a Ca'Non word for "wolf" to mysteriously appear.. And we'll call it, an x-mas miracle ! ~ gha'cher qIj
D’OH! <Quch vIqIp> Voragh From: nIqolay Q Many people who make a distinction seem to base their reasoning on the size of the Earth animal, and also the puns. ([…] whereas qovIj is a pun based off a stereotypical pet dog name.)
I assumed that qovIj was ”I trust” spelled backwards, given the man/dog relationship history. Sent from my iPhone. charghwI’
On Dec 10, 2019, at 1:02 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
D’OH! <Quch vIqIp>
Voragh
From: nIqolay Q
Many people who make a distinction seem to base their reasoning on the size of the Earth animal, and also the puns. ([…] whereas qovIj is a pun based off a stereotypical pet dog name.)
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On 12/10/2019 10:57 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
Am 10.12.2019 um 16:49 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS:
But why translate "wolf" as {ngavyaw'} ?
Becaue I think it's larger than a {qovIj}.
But after all, it's just my personal decision. Any discussion about where the line is will lead to nothing.
This is a *ngavyaw':* https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNjFlNmU2ZDMtZWE4OS00YmFiLTkwYWItNzU2... This is a *qovIj:* https://i.stack.imgur.com/2yxpj.jpg This is a closer shot of a *qovIj:* https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/1/1f/Klingon_dog%2C_S... This is a wolf: https://www.dw.com/image/45189092_303.jpg None of these creatures particularly resemble each other beyond being "canine-like." Lieven hasn't picked *ngavyaw'* because it's the way you translate /wolf;/ he just picked one of the two canine-like animals we have names for and substituted it. Unfortunately, this means people will start to think that *ngavyaw'* means /wolf,/ especially since it's a picture book with pictures of a wolf, not a *ngavyaw'.* Personally, I probably would have just transliterated /wolf/ as *wulv* or something. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
toH, DaH <ngavyaw'> mung wISov! (Though I still haven't figured out if it's a pun.) -- Voragh -----Original Message----- From: Lieven L. Litaer a while ago, De'vID pointed me to this German author who published his bedtime story in over sixty languages as a bilingual book. It was quickly decided that this needs to be done in Klingon, and now I can proudly tell you that it's finished. It's a very short story and absolutely not related to Klingons, but if you are searching for a special christmas gift, or just like to read a Klingon story to your toddler, this is certainly a good thing to have. The most notable fact is that it's available in any possible combination of those sixty languages. So if you wish to have it Persian-Klingon, just go to the website and order your book. More details and links can be found in the Klingon Wiki: http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/SleepTightLittleWolf
Am 10.12.2019 um 16:51 schrieb Steven Boozer:
toH, DaH <ngavyaw'> mung wISov! (Though I still haven't figured out if it's a pun.)
I'm not sure what you're talking about, but for the record: The word appeared long before this story was translated, so there is no relationship (at least that I know of). Regarding the pun, boQwI' suggests that it may be backwards for "white fang", the name of the wolfdog in Jack London's novel. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.net/wolf http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/SleepTightLittleWolf
On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 at 16:34, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
So if you wish to have it Persian-Klingon,
I had wanted to have it in English, Persian, and German (the 3 languages my child speaks so far), but they can only include 2 languages at a time. I got Lieven to translate it into Klingon just so there would be an even number of languages I can order the book in. {{:-) Hmm... it seems Persian-Klingon isn't actually possible. You can do German-Klingon, Dutch-Klingon, and English-Klingon, but not Klingon with another language. I guess it has to be German-Klingon and Persian-English, then. -- De'vID
Okay, I can't actually get the site to give it to me in Klingon. It's not in the drop down list. Is there a direct link to English - Klingon? ~M RoneySent from my Palm Prē -------- Original message --------From: De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> Date: 12/11/19 05:41 (GMT-05:00) To: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol@kli.org> Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Qongchu', ngavyaw' mach On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 at 16:34, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:So if you wish to have it Persian-Klingon, I had wanted to have it in English, Persian, and German (the 3 languages my child speaks so far), but they can only include 2 languages at a time. I got Lieven to translate it into Klingon just so there would be an even number of languages I can order the book in. {{:-)Hmm... it seems Persian-Klingon isn't actually possible. You can do German-Klingon, Dutch-Klingon, and English-Klingon, but not Klingon with another language. I guess it has to be German-Klingon and Persian-English, then. -- De'vID
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 at 11:44, M Roney <nahqun@gmail.com> wrote:
Okay, I can't actually get the site to give it to me in Klingon. It's not in the drop down list. Is there a direct link to English - Klingon?
English-Klingon: https://www.amazon.de/dp/3739910690/ German-Klingon: https://www.amazon.de/dp/3739910623/ Dutch-Klingon: https://www.amazon.de/dp/3739910682/ Those are the only possible combinations with Klingon. (At least, for the moment. Maybe it takes time to roll out others.) -- De'vID
participants (8)
-
De'vID -
Lieven L. Litaer -
M Roney -
mayqel qunen'oS -
nIqolay Q -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel -
Will Martin