Suppose I write: Qang qopmeH HoD, wej mang tlhappu', 'ej vaS'a' lujaHpu' in order to arrest the chancellor, the captain took three soldiers and went to the great hall Is this use of {tlhap} correct? -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ
In the Klingon monopoly, there are these sentences: jagh Duj DaQaw' 'ach pagh qama' Datlhapqa'. "Destroy enemy vessel without retrieving prisoners." ngIq gholvo' wa'maH QaS yItlhap. "Collect 10 forces from every player." I'm not sure if they in this context refer to board game tokens instead of real soldiers or prisoners, so they might not be valid evidence. Iikka "fergusq" Hauhio https://klingonia.fi/en ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Friday, January 21st, 2022 at 14.40, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
Suppose I write:
Qang qopmeH HoD, wej mang tlhappu', 'ej vaS'a' lujaHpu' in order to arrest the chancellor, the captain took three soldiers and went to the great hall
Is this use of {tlhap} correct?
-- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ
fergusq:
jagh Duj DaQaw' 'ach pagh qama' Datlhapqa'. "Destroy enemy vessel without retrieving prisoners."
This is an interesting sentence, but the problem here is that "taking" is literal. It talks about not taking someone, who if taken he would be taken by force. But in the captain-chancellor example the soldiers aren't taken forcefully. They obey the orders of the captain, but what they're actually doing is follow/accompany their captain to the great hall. This is what confuses me. -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ
Am 21.01.2022 um 13:40 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS:
Suppose I write:
Qang qopmeH HoD, wej mang tlhappu', 'ej vaS'a' lujaHpu' in order to arrest the chancellor, the captain took three soldiers and went to the great hall
Is this use of {tlhap} correct?
This sounds strange to me, because it suggests the grabbing of a person. For this situation, I would use {tlhejmoH} or smiliar. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/En/AliceInWonderland
On 1/21/2022 8:46 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
Am 21.01.2022 um 13:40 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS:
Suppose I write:
Qang qopmeH HoD, wej mang tlhappu', 'ej vaS'a' lujaHpu' in order to arrest the chancellor, the captain took three soldiers and went to the great hall
Is this use of {tlhap} correct?
This sounds strange to me, because it suggests the grabbing of a person. For this situation, I would use {tlhejmoH} or smiliar.
In English, /take/ has a very broad range of meanings. It can mean to grab something, but it can also mean to cause it to accompany you (hence your *tlhejmoH*). Most of the time, canonical examples are referring to getting a physical object into one's possession. But there are potential exceptions. *De' vItlhapnISpu'*/I needed to get the information./ (TKD) This isn't completely different than the other examples, but it's abstract and talking about /getting/ instead of /taking./ Another is in KGT, where we get the sentence *qatlh betleHDaj tlhapbe'?*/Why doesn't he take his bat'leth?/ We know this doesn't mean /Why doesn't he grab/acquire his bat'leth?/ because *tlhapbe'* is then translated for us as /He/she does not bring it./ It means /Why doesn't he carry his bat'leth with him? /This example especially matches Qa'yIn's proposed usage. Does Qa'yIn's sentence work? Maybe. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
Although {tlhap} "take, collect, gain" can refer to people: yItlhapQo' [Leave him! ("Don't take him!") (untranslated)] (ENT "Affliction") vItlhapnISpu' I needed to take her. TKD ... I would use {qem} "bring" which refers to both things and people: nom QaH yIqem Get help quickly! (CK) [implying people] reH pu' vIqem I always bring a phaser. (KGT) reH puq vIqem I always bring a child. (KGT) SoHvaD quvwI’ qem Hegh 'e' wIvDI’ Hegh pop Hevchugh quvwI’ The honorable will be rewarded after death chooses to bring them to you (PB) Even simpler is: Qang qopmeH vaS'a'Daq lujaHpu' HoD wej mang je. The captain and three soldiers went to the Great Hall to arrest the chancellor. Voragh -----------------------------------Original Message----------------------------------- From: Lieven L. Litaer Sent: Friday, January 21, 2022 7:47 AM Am 21.01.2022 um 13:40 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS:
Suppose I write:
Qang qopmeH HoD, wej mang tlhappu', 'ej vaS'a' lujaHpu' in order to arrest the chancellor, the captain took three soldiers and went to the great hall
Is this use of {tlhap} correct?
This sounds strange to me, because it suggests the grabbing of a person. For this situation, I would use {tlhejmoH} or smiliar.
vaS’a’Daq Qang qopmeH, HoD lutlhej wej mang. “Take", “go", and “enter" somewhat redundantly describe a story more simply and directly told. “Accompany” explains the gathering of four people and going somewhere, so a simple locative and {qopmeH} tells the rest of the story, once you name names. Maybe you could use {tlhap}, but then there are a huge collection of verbs you could use. Some work better than others, and {tlhap} doesn’t work especially well. It is good to exercise your vocabulary toward a specific meaning rather than overuse more generic verbs. I’d use {ra’} before I’d use {tlhap} in this instance, since it better explains the authority relationship and the action.
On Jan 21, 2022, at 7:40 AM, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
Suppose I write:
Qang qopmeH HoD, wej mang tlhappu', 'ej vaS'a' lujaHpu' in order to arrest the chancellor, the captain took three soldiers and went to the great hall
Is this use of {tlhap} correct?
-- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ <https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/> Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
participants (6)
-
Iikka Hauhio -
Lieven L. Litaer -
mayqel qunen'oS -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel -
Will Martin