lutlhob <naDevvo' vaS'a'Daq majaHlaH'a'?> They ask him, "Can we get to the Great Hall from here?" PK

Apparently, this sentence and subsequent translation, must come way before the details which concern the use of verbs of movement were clarified. One would expect {wIjaHlaH} instead of {majaHlaH}, in order to specify "the direction of movement vs where the movement is taking place". Of course, someone could argue, that since the sentence says "from here TO the great hall", then the direction is specified. But the counter-argument could come too, "if we use the {ma-}, then this could mean : we are walking along the road which goes from here to the great hall, without actually us wanting to go there". Anyway, I prefer the use of {wI-}, in cases such as these, because : a. it is not wrong b. if one is to err, then it is better to earn on the safe side. And a side note to this : It is one thing to say that klingon does not tolerate redundancy, so we should omit useless words, prefixes or suffixes ; However it is quite another, to assume that the reader is clairvoyant or possesses supernatural abilities, thus waiting from him to already know what's on one's mind. qunnoq On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:

...

Klingon Word of the Day for Friday, June 17, 2016

Klingon word: ghel Part of speech: verb Definition: ask (a question)

AFAIK no example sentences in canon.

(HQ 7:4): What I wanted to do with {tlhob} and {ghel} is to distinguish between two different meanings for the English verb "ask". There are two ask's. There's the ask where you ask a question and there's ask where you make a request. I wanted it to be two different verbs, though apparently there are times when the request verb is used to ask a question as well. So maybe the way it works is that {ghel} can ask a question and only as a question and the other one can mean that and is also used to request or plead or something like that.

SEE ALSO:

tlhob ask, request, plead (v)

qatlhob I ask you. KLS

qatlhobneS Please. TNK

lutlhob <naDevvo' vaS'a'Daq majaHlaH'a'?> They ask him, "Can we get to the Great Hall from here?" PK

juDev 'ej Dujvam ra'wI' DagheS 'e' vItlhob I ask you to lead us as commander of this ship. ("I request that you lead us and that you assume the duties of commander of this ship.") KGT

molor luSuvmeH nuHmeychaj Suq 'e' tlhob qeylIS Kahless asks that they take up their weapons to fight Molor PB

yu' question, interrogate (v)

AFAIK no examples in canon.

poQ demand, require (v)

muSuvbogh DoS vIpoQ I need a target that fights back. ST5

qab legh 'e' poQ He/she demands to see a face. [i.e. a challenge to a duel] KGT

loHwI' vISuch 'e' vIpoQ I demand to see the magistrate! (ENT "Affliction")

qoy' plead, beg (v)

AFAIK no examples in canon.

jang answer (v)

jang 'avwI' <jIghung je> The guard replies, "I am also hungry." PK

jang 'avwI' <jI'oj je> The guard replies, "I am also thirsty." PK

jang 'avwI' <lIchopbe'chugh ghewmey!> The guard answers, "If the bugs do not bite you!" PK

lujang maS'e' loQ So'be'bogh QIb lurur they reply, shaped as the crescent moon. PB

lujang meQboghnom 'oH yeqchuqchu'taHghach Daw' je joqwI' They reply it is the {meQboghnom}, the banner of unity and revolution. PB

-- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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SuStel :

As a matter of fact, Klingon does tolerate redundancy, more than English in some cases. However, the immortal advice of William Strunk still applies: omit needless words.

True ! I believe the goal must be for someone to strike this perfect balance : Get 100% the intended meaning through, but by using the fewer words necessary. However, consider the following example : few minutes ago, I wrote on another post (which I don't know if it went through to the list), this sentence : {qaStaHvIS jar bIr, jIHvaD pagh qay'wI' tu'lu'. 'a qaSchoHtaHvISDI' jar tuj, ghe''or rur yaHwIj}. My intended meaning was "while the cold months were happening, for me there was no problem, but while the hot months begun to happen my office resembled hell". Now, because we usually omit the {-mey}, (unless we need to use {Hoch}), while I was writing I chose to omit it too.. I said to myself "yeah, who cares ? flush {-mey} down the toilet, who needs it anyway.." But in the intended meaning, the difference was huge ; since klingon doesn't possess words for the individual seasons, I should have added the {-mey}, in order to express that "I'm referring to a group of hot months ---> i.e. summer". I made the mistake, to believe that the reader would "already be in my mind knowing what I want to express", thus being able to distinguish the difference between "month" and "months". And that was wrong.. 'op pIq, chay' povchu'ghach vIchavlaH, jIyepHa'taHchugh ? how will I be able to attain excellence, if I continue being careless ? mIv Hurgh qunnoq On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 6:43 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:

On 6/17/2016 11:30 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:

lutlhob <naDevvo' vaS'a'Daq majaHlaH'a'?> They ask him, "Can we get to the Great Hall from here?" PK

Apparently, this sentence and subsequent translation, must come way before the details which concern the use of verbs of movement were clarified.

Correct: Power Klingon came before the Okrand interview that explained verbs of motion.

One need not apply the rule too strictly, however. If there is the occasional contradiction, especially one that came before the rule was given to us, we can overlook it as a mere exception, or even an error.

It is one thing to say that klingon does not tolerate redundancy, so we should omit useless words, prefixes or suffixes ;

As a matter of fact, Klingon does tolerate redundancy, more than English in some cases. However, the immortal advice of William Strunk still applies: omit needless words.

-- SuStel http://trimboli.name

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Ouch! You've got two type 9 suffixes on that second qaS, and most of those suffixes aren't necessary anyway

thank you for pointing this out ! I can't believe I made this mistake !

You can also improve the bit with qay' like so: qaStaHvIS jarmey bIr jIHvaD qay'be' during the cold months, they [the cold months] were not a problem for me.

thanks ! On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 7:59 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:

On 6/17/2016 12:20 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:

{qaStaHvIS jar bIr, jIHvaD pagh qay'wI' tu'lu'. 'a qaSchoHtaHvISDI' jar tuj, ghe''or rur yaHwIj}.

My intended meaning was "while the cold months were happening, for me there was no problem, but while the hot months begun to happen my office resembled hell".

Ouch! You've got two type 9 suffixes on that second qaS, and most of those suffixes aren't necessary anyway.

Does your office resemble Hell only when the hot months start to happen? Does it resemble Hell at the time the hot months happen? No, it resembles Hell while the hot months happen. Use only qaStaHvIS.

You can also improve the bit with qay' like so: qaStaHvIS jarmey bIr jIHvaD qay'be' during the cold months, they [the cold months] were not a problem for me. Without an indication to the contrary, it is most natural to assume the subject of the first clause is also the elided subject of the second clause.

-- SuStel http://trimboli.name

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