How to force the adverb on a specific target
Yesterday I wrote : {verenganarvo' naDev pawlaw' (Hat SeHmeH janwIj)}. With the intended meaning being "but the air conditioner, apparently came here from ferenginar". However, because while I was writing yesterday I was starving, I didn' realize that there was a big problem with that sentence. The greek/english original sentence, wishes to express the "seemingly/apparently" meaning, with regards to "where the a/c came from" ; not with regards to "its arrival". But when I shoved the {-law'} on the {paw}, the "seemingly/apparently" meaning went on the {paw}. So the klingon sentence took the meaning : "but the airconditioner (seemingly arrived = i.e. perhaps it didn't arrive) from ferenginar)" So, the question arises : How could I have expressed the original meaning ? I can't place the {-law'} on a noun, so my next thought would be : "why don't I use an adverb". But even if I wrote {chaq verenganarvo' naDev paw (Hat SeHmeH janwIj)}, then again there would be a problem. Since the adverb refers to the verb, then again the meaning would be "perhaps it arrived'. So dead end again. Of course I could employ the time honored approach, of splitting the meaning into two sentences. But I don't like that ; the goal should be to recreate in writing, the natural flowing sound, of the spoken language. So, whatever is to happen, must happen in a single sentence. All these, were causing me a headache, until finally.. I came up with the solution. I can take a sentence, and within that sentence, create another sentence which will modify the original sentence, enclose it in dashes, and thus kill two birds with one stone. So, I could write : {naDev - chaq verenganarvo' - paw (Hat SeHmeH janwIj)} Now, I know that many -perhaps because the disagree- could say : "even the dashes enclosed sentence, still refers/modifies the verb". But I disagree. When one talks to another, speaks a sentence, and temporarily lowers the tone of his voice, in order to add something, then the *feeling* is that the -lowered voice sentence- is something else ; related to the original sentence but at the same time having an entity of its own. so.. Qapla' ! problem solved ! mIv mop je Hurgh qunnoq
On 6/18/2016 5:30 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
{verenganarvo' naDev pawlaw' (Hat SeHmeH janwIj)}. With the intended meaning being "but the air conditioner, apparently came here from ferenginar".
The greek/english original sentence, wishes to express the "seemingly/apparently" meaning, with regards to "where the a/c came from" ; not with regards to "its arrival".
But when I shoved the {-law'} on the {paw}, the "seemingly/apparently" meaning went on the {paw}. So the klingon sentence took the meaning : "but the airconditioner (seemingly arrived = i.e. perhaps it didn't arrive) from ferenginar)"
*-law'* doesn't only apply to the verb; it applies to the entire sentence. *verenganarvo' naDev pawlaw'pu' Hat SeHmeH janwIj* /my temperature-control device arrived here from Ferenginar—I believe this to be true./ It doesn't say which part of the sentence is uncertain—maybe you're not sure it has arrived here instead of somewhere else; maybe you're not sure it came from Ferenginar; maybe you're not sure it is the air conditioner that arrived; maybe you're not sure it arrived anywhere at all. / /
I can't place the {-law'} on a noun, so my next thought would be : "why don't I use an adverb".
But even if I wrote {chaq verenganarvo' naDev paw (Hat SeHmeH janwIj)}, then again there would be a problem. Since the adverb refers to the verb, then again the meaning would be "perhaps it arrived'. So dead end again.
I would never have interpreted *chaq* in this sentence to refer only to the verb; I'd have applied it to the entire sentence, just like *-law'.* -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
indeed, you're right ; and this uncertainty, with regards to the exact target of {chaq} or {-law'}, is the problem here. I was interested in finding a way to focus the intended meaning on the desired part of the sentence. So, I thought the little-sentence-in-dashes solution. of course now the question would be "would a klingon mind understand this method of specifying things" ? and of course this solution is definitely "human influenced/oriented.." but for the moment, its the only solution I can find. let alone the fact, that klingon is primarily a spoken language, so what would be wrong with accepting methods of expression which stem from real life conversation. mayqel On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 3:48 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 6/18/2016 5:30 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
{verenganarvo' naDev pawlaw' (Hat SeHmeH janwIj)}. With the intended meaning being "but the air conditioner, apparently came here from ferenginar".
The greek/english original sentence, wishes to express the "seemingly/apparently" meaning, with regards to "where the a/c came from" ; not with regards to "its arrival".
But when I shoved the {-law'} on the {paw}, the "seemingly/apparently" meaning went on the {paw}. So the klingon sentence took the meaning : "but the airconditioner (seemingly arrived = i.e. perhaps it didn't arrive) from ferenginar)"
-law' doesn't only apply to the verb; it applies to the entire sentence. verenganarvo' naDev pawlaw'pu' Hat SeHmeH janwIj my temperature-control device arrived here from Ferenginar—I believe this to be true. It doesn't say which part of the sentence is uncertain—maybe you're not sure it has arrived here instead of somewhere else; maybe you're not sure it came from Ferenginar; maybe you're not sure it is the air conditioner that arrived; maybe you're not sure it arrived anywhere at all.
I can't place the {-law'} on a noun, so my next thought would be : "why don't I use an adverb".
But even if I wrote {chaq verenganarvo' naDev paw (Hat SeHmeH janwIj)}, then again there would be a problem. Since the adverb refers to the verb, then again the meaning would be "perhaps it arrived'. So dead end again.
I would never have interpreted chaq in this sentence to refer only to the verb; I'd have applied it to the entire sentence, just like -law'.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name
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Have you considered the Type 3 noun suffixes: {veranganarHey'vo' naDev paw} - "It arrived here from apparently Ferenginar" (I think it was Ferenginar, but I'm not sure) {Dujqoqvo' naDev paw} - "It arrived here from from the so-called ship" (I'm not convinced it's a ship at all.. ) {Qo'noSna'vo' naDev paw} - "It arrived here from a place that is defiantly Kronos" (It didn't come from anywhere else) Besides that, you'd could rework it into multiple sentences. Something like: {veranganarvo' naDev paw'law' ach chaq latlh Daqvo' paw} - "I think it arrived here from Ferenginar, but perhaps it arrived from another location" qurgh On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 9:39 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
indeed, you're right ;
and this uncertainty, with regards to the exact target of {chaq} or {-law'}, is the problem here.
I was interested in finding a way to focus the intended meaning on the desired part of the sentence. So, I thought the little-sentence-in-dashes solution.
of course now the question would be "would a klingon mind understand this method of specifying things" ?
and of course this solution is definitely "human influenced/oriented.."
but for the moment, its the only solution I can find. let alone the fact, that klingon is primarily a spoken language, so what would be wrong with accepting methods of expression which stem from real life conversation.
mayqel
On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 3:48 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 6/18/2016 5:30 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
{verenganarvo' naDev pawlaw' (Hat SeHmeH janwIj)}. With the intended meaning being "but the air conditioner, apparently came here from ferenginar".
The greek/english original sentence, wishes to express the "seemingly/apparently" meaning, with regards to "where the a/c came from" ; not with regards to "its arrival".
But when I shoved the {-law'} on the {paw}, the "seemingly/apparently" meaning went on the {paw}. So the klingon sentence took the meaning : "but the airconditioner (seemingly arrived = i.e. perhaps it didn't arrive) from ferenginar)"
-law' doesn't only apply to the verb; it applies to the entire sentence. verenganarvo' naDev pawlaw'pu' Hat SeHmeH janwIj my temperature-control device arrived here from Ferenginar—I believe this to be true. It doesn't say which part of the sentence is uncertain—maybe you're not sure it has arrived here instead of somewhere else; maybe you're not sure it came from Ferenginar; maybe you're not sure it is the air conditioner that arrived; maybe you're not sure it arrived anywhere at all.
I can't place the {-law'} on a noun, so my next thought would be : "why don't I use an adverb".
But even if I wrote {chaq verenganarvo' naDev paw (Hat SeHmeH janwIj)}, then again there would be a problem. Since the adverb refers to the verb, then again the meaning would be "perhaps it arrived'. So dead end again.
I would never have interpreted chaq in this sentence to refer only to the verb; I'd have applied it to the entire sentence, just like -law'.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name
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Have you considered the Type 3 noun suffixes.
unfortunately not ! they eluded my attention. and now that you mention it, I realize that they almost always elude my attention. I really don't know why..
{veranganarHey'vo' naDev paw} - "It arrived here from apparently Ferenginar" (I think it was Ferenginar, but I'm not sure)
oh, this is beautiful.. this is perfect ! if only I had thought of using the {-Hey}.. thank you qurgh ! Which ones more proves, that klingon possesses numerous tools, in order for someone to express himself ; the problem is "how one's mind will think of the right tool at the right time.." mIv mop je Hurgh mayqel On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 4:50 PM, qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
Have you considered the Type 3 noun suffixes:
{veranganarHey'vo' naDev paw} - "It arrived here from apparently Ferenginar" (I think it was Ferenginar, but I'm not sure)
{Dujqoqvo' naDev paw} - "It arrived here from from the so-called ship" (I'm not convinced it's a ship at all.. )
{Qo'noSna'vo' naDev paw} - "It arrived here from a place that is defiantly Kronos" (It didn't come from anywhere else)
Besides that, you'd could rework it into multiple sentences. Something like:
{veranganarvo' naDev paw'law' ach chaq latlh Daqvo' paw} - "I think it arrived here from Ferenginar, but perhaps it arrived from another location"
qurgh
On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 9:39 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
indeed, you're right ;
and this uncertainty, with regards to the exact target of {chaq} or {-law'}, is the problem here.
I was interested in finding a way to focus the intended meaning on the desired part of the sentence. So, I thought the little-sentence-in-dashes solution.
of course now the question would be "would a klingon mind understand this method of specifying things" ?
and of course this solution is definitely "human influenced/oriented.."
but for the moment, its the only solution I can find. let alone the fact, that klingon is primarily a spoken language, so what would be wrong with accepting methods of expression which stem from real life conversation.
mayqel
On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 3:48 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 6/18/2016 5:30 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
{verenganarvo' naDev pawlaw' (Hat SeHmeH janwIj)}. With the intended meaning being "but the air conditioner, apparently came here from ferenginar".
The greek/english original sentence, wishes to express the "seemingly/apparently" meaning, with regards to "where the a/c came from" ; not with regards to "its arrival".
But when I shoved the {-law'} on the {paw}, the "seemingly/apparently" meaning went on the {paw}. So the klingon sentence took the meaning : "but the airconditioner (seemingly arrived = i.e. perhaps it didn't arrive) from ferenginar)"
-law' doesn't only apply to the verb; it applies to the entire sentence. verenganarvo' naDev pawlaw'pu' Hat SeHmeH janwIj my temperature-control device arrived here from Ferenginar—I believe this to be true. It doesn't say which part of the sentence is uncertain—maybe you're not sure it has arrived here instead of somewhere else; maybe you're not sure it came from Ferenginar; maybe you're not sure it is the air conditioner that arrived; maybe you're not sure it arrived anywhere at all.
I can't place the {-law'} on a noun, so my next thought would be : "why don't I use an adverb".
But even if I wrote {chaq verenganarvo' naDev paw (Hat SeHmeH janwIj)}, then again there would be a problem. Since the adverb refers to the verb, then again the meaning would be "perhaps it arrived'. So dead end again.
I would never have interpreted chaq in this sentence to refer only to the verb; I'd have applied it to the entire sentence, just like -law'.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
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mayqel qunenoS -
qurgh lungqIj -
SuStel