Klingon Word of the Day: jIvvo'
Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, May 11, 2019 Klingon word: jIvvo' Part of speech: noun Definition: criminal, villain, malefactor Source: Star Trek Into Darkness, qepHom 2013 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh@kli.org).
Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, May 11, 2019 Klingon word: jIvvo' Part of speech: noun Definition: criminal, villain, malefactor Source: Star Trek Into Darkness, qepHom 2013 _______________________________________________ ghach jIvvo' naH. DaH pIghvamDaq So''eghtaH. There is a criminal hiding in these ruins. STID (Lieven, 11/11/2013): This word is similar to {HeSwI'} "criminal". {HeSwI'} is used to refer to someone who breaks a law; {jIvvo'} connotes, in addition, being evil. (Lieven, 5/07/2014): The English subtitles were first planned using the word "terrorist", the German subtitles even use it. TREK TRIVIA: "James T. Kirk — renegade and terrorist!" (Klingon ambassador Kamarag, ST4) SEE ALSO: mIgh be evil (v) HIgh fight dirty (v) -- Voragh Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
On Mon, May 13, 2019, 07:38 Steven Boozer, <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, May 11, 2019
Klingon word: jIvvo' Part of speech: noun Definition: criminal, villain, malefactor Source: Star Trek Into Darkness, qepHom 2013 _______________________________________________
ghach jIvvo' naH. DaH pIghvamDaq So''eghtaH. There is a criminal hiding in these ruins. STID
If you watch her lips, what she's actually saying is {ghaH vISammeH...}, which is a line that was in the original script. -- De'vID
Am 13.05.2019 um 16:45 schrieb De'vID:
ghach jIvvo' naH. DaH pIghvamDaq So''eghtaH. There is a criminal hiding in these ruins. STID
If you watch her lips, what she's actually saying is {ghaH vISammeH...}, which is a line that was in the original script.
Are you really sure about this? The original scene is on the Blueray, and the lips movement fit something else, close to {... jIHvo' nIH... }, acording to subtitles "he stole from me". Although it's really hard to understand. {ghaH vISammeH} was a phrase that occured right before this: ghaH vISammeH |'ej DochmeywIj vItlhap(qa'meH) |'ej Dojmey wID vInDa'ma' peq. The first part was cut in the final scene. The original scene is listed in the Klingon wiki, but there is exactly this phrase that's still unclear: http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/ST12 -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de
On Mon, May 13, 2019, 10:52 Lieven L. Litaer, <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 13.05.2019 um 16:45 schrieb De'vID:
ghach jIvvo' naH. DaH pIghvamDaq So''eghtaH. There is a criminal hiding in these ruins. STID
If you watch her lips, what she's actually saying is {ghaH vISammeH...}, which is a line that was in the original script.
Are you really sure about this?
Not completely. At the time I watched the released scenes with the overdubbing and matched the lip movements to the scripted lines, I believed this to be true and wrote it down. But I don't have the movie now to double-check. Also, it's not impossible that different cuts of the movie have different dubbing! -- De'vID
Am 13.05.2019 um 20:13 schrieb De'vID:
Not completely. At the time I watched the released scenes with the overdubbing and matched the lip movements to the scripted lines, I believed this to be true and wrote it down. But I don't have the movie now to double-check.
Okay then - I had been working on this for a while, so now this was my remeinder to compelte the thing: I've made a video on Youtube that compares the original pre-fx scene to the final scene from the movie. I'm sure it's helpful for anyone who like to compare those two versions. And besides, I'm really astonished how perfect Marc Okrand made those new words fit the lips so perfectly. You really don't see/hear a difference. See it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVaRoU0IqnI -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/ST12
On Mon, 13 May 2019 at 10:52, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
See it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVaRoU0IqnI
The original scene is on the Blueray, and the lips movement fit something else, close to {... jIHvo' nIH... }, acording to subtitles "he stole from me". Although it's really hard to understand.
Having watched your side-by-side synchronised edit, I concur with your assessment. The line she actually says is: {HIja', 'ej jIHvo' nIHDI' jIbup.} "Yes, and when he stole from me I dumped (him)." The {HIja'} was dubbed into {jIyI'}. Two different shots of the {'ej jIHvo' nIHDI' jIbup} sentence was dubbed into two different sentences! 1. {ghach jIvvo' naH.} [The {jIbup} part is cut off and not used.] 2. {'ej chIvo' neH chIw vum'e'.} Combining this with my previous notes (see my message dated Sep. 8, 2017, with the subject "STID dialogue"), some of the re-dubbing was based on this previous version of the dialogue: Uhura: Who is the leader? {DevwI' ghaH 'Iv'e'?} -> {jIvuylaH. jIve'.} Klingon: How do you know Klingon? [not used] Uhura: My romantic partner taught me. {mughojmoH parmaqqaywI'.} -> {potlhmo' batlh, vIqawba'.} Klingon: You mated with a Klingon? {tlhIngan Dangaghpu''a' SoH?} [not used] Uhura: Yes, and when he stole from me I dumped him. {HIja', 'ej jIHvo' nIHDI' jIbup.} -> {jIyI'.} {'ej chIvo' neH chIw vum'e'.} / {ghach jIvvo' naH.} Uhura: To find him and take back my things, I have tracked him here. {ghaH vISammeH 'ej DochmeywIj vItlhapqa'meH naDev vIghochpu'.} -> [{ghaH vISammeH} is not used] {'ej Dojmey wID - vInDa'ma' peq.} [{-meH naDev vIghochpu'} is not used.] Now he is hiding in the ruins of this city, a coward. {DaH vengvam pIghDaq So''eghtaH. nuch.} In the final version, this was shortened to {DaH pIghvamDaq So''eghtaH} to match the shorter timing. This change was hidden by Uhura's not being visible when it's spoken. Klingon: You lie. {bInep} Uhura: Then kill me. I will certainly die with honour. {vaj HIHoH. batlh jIHeghbej.} -- De'vID
On Mon, 13 May 2019 at 22:07, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
The line she actually says is: {HIja', 'ej jIHvo' nIHDI' jIbup.} "Yes, and when he stole from me I dumped (him)."
Here's a clearer edit where she says this line: https://youtu.be/s9AFnBkIRwo?t=42 This tells us two things: 1. The person stolen from is marked with {-vo'} when using the verb {nIH}. 2. {bup} can (contextually) refer to ending a relationship with a person. Also, I forgot to mention in my previous email how impressive Okrand's work was, but also when a nightmare it must've been when the director showed him the finished cut of the film and asked him to re-dub it! -- De'vID
Am 14.05.2019 um 07:23 schrieb De'vID:
The line she actually says is: {HIja', 'ej jIHvo' nIHDI' jIbup.} "Yes, and when he stole from me I dumped (him)."
Thanks a lot for that. I'll edit this in my video.
Here's a clearer edit where she says this line: https://youtu.be/s9AFnBkIRwo?t=42
You mention that in boQwI', but I have compared those two scenes and they definitely do NOT match in lips movement: When final version Uhura says {jIyI'} the teeth stick together, but in the frist version with {HIja'}, her mouth definitely opens for the sound {a}. But as you said before, they may have recorded this several times, and we may not see what Okrand used to work on.
Also, I forgot to mention in my previous email how impressive Okrand's work was, but also when a nightmare it must've been when the director showed him the finished cut of the film and asked him to re-dub it!
Oh, yes, indeed, it is. It think it's very ironic that this exactly the same thing he had tow work with when he started with ST3 so many years ago (or even ST2, if yu want to include the vulcan dialogue.) -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/StarTrekDiscovery
On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 08:57, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 14.05.2019 um 07:23 schrieb De'vID:
The line she actually says is: {HIja', 'ej jIHvo' nIHDI' jIbup.} "Yes, and when he stole from me I dumped (him)."
[...]
You mention that in boQwI', but I have compared those two scenes and they definitely do NOT match in lips movement: When final version Uhura says {jIyI'} the teeth stick together, but in the frist version with {HIja'}, her mouth definitely opens for the sound {a}.
I guess you're talking about the comparison which starts at about 0:26 here: https://youtu.be/EJYUWZ5XNPg?t=26 In the final version (top half), Uhura says {jIyI'} at 0:26. In the earlier cut (bottom half), she says {HIja'} at 0:28. Then at 0:30, their lips sync up as the top Uhura says {ghach jIvvo' naH} and the bottom one says {'ej jIHvo' nIHDI' jIbup}. (The top one cuts away one second earlier, so that the lip movements corresponding to {-DI' jIbup} are not used. And by the way, your subtitles are missing the {'ej} in the bottom version, which is clearly audible.) Since Uhura's lips are continuously visible in both versions (the top from 0:26 to 0:32 and the bottom from 0:28 to 0:33, with an overlap between 0:30 to 0:32 where their lip movements match), it must be the case that they are two shots of her speaking the same original line. The word which was overdubbed into {jIyI'} *must* have been {HIja'}. I agree with you that her lips movements when she says {jIyI'} (in the top version) and when she says {HIja'} (in the bottom version) aren't exactly the same, but I don't believe this means anything other than that she stressed the same word in different ways when she spoke it at different times. If you watch her lips in the top version, she opens her mouth to make a {H} which has become silent, followed by a {j} (which has become {j-y}), and ends with wide lips which might be a {'} (which has become {t}). In fact, in the bottom version she seems to have dropped the glottal stop, which explains her open mouth. (Also, while watching this scene again, it occurred to me that {HIja'} was joined to another sentence with the conjunction {'ej}. TKD 5.5 says that exclamations such as {HIja'} "stand as sentences in their own right", and since TKD 5.3 says that {'ej} joins sentences, there's no reason why {HIja'} couldn't be one of the sentences so joined. But I don't recall another example of this.) -- De'vID
participants (4)
-
De'vID -
Klingon Word of the Day -
Lieven L. Litaer -
Steven Boozer