Klingon Word of the Day for Wednesday, February 13, 2019 Klingon word: 'Imyagh Part of speech: excl Definition: sound made by a vIghro' or ghISnar Source: qep'a' 24 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh@kli.org).
Klingon word: 'Imyagh Part of speech: excl Definition: sound made by a vIghro' or ghISnar Source: qep'a' 24 [2017] _______________________________________________ (qep'a' 2017): This is an imitative word and there are variations. And not everyone uses it in the first place. (qurgh, 7/29/2017): The cat said, "meow". Marc said yes. The cat meowed as I walked by. Marc said no. [Okrand] said these are words that described the sounds that the animals make. They are pretty much onomatopoeias of the animals' noises. CULTURAL NOTES: When Klingon women are ready to mate they slink around like a "Hellenian lynx" while making low growling sounds like a {chemvaH} in heat. (PK) Is a {chemvaH} a type of feline like a lynx -- Hellenian or otherwise? SEE ALSO: ghugh vocalize [by animals] (v) Huy hum, purr (v) -- Voragh Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
(qurgh, 7/29/2017): The cat said, "meow". Marc said yes. The cat meowed as I walked by. Marc said no.
This raises the question of how one should translate "The cat said". Would you say ghugh vIghro', 'Imyagh. or jatlh vIghro', 'Imyagh. or perhaps ghugh vIghro', jatlh, 'Imyagh. ? //loghaD ________________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 16:07 To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Klingon Word of the Day: 'Imyagh Klingon word: 'Imyagh Part of speech: excl Definition: sound made by a vIghro' or ghISnar Source: qep'a' 24 [2017] _______________________________________________ (qep'a' 2017): This is an imitative word and there are variations. And not everyone uses it in the first place. (qurgh, 7/29/2017): The cat said, "meow". Marc said yes. The cat meowed as I walked by. Marc said no. [Okrand] said these are words that described the sounds that the animals make. They are pretty much onomatopoeias of the animals' noises. CULTURAL NOTES: When Klingon women are ready to mate they slink around like a "Hellenian lynx" while making low growling sounds like a {chemvaH} in heat. (PK) Is a {chemvaH} a type of feline like a lynx -- Hellenian or otherwise? SEE ALSO: ghugh vocalize [by animals] (v) Huy hum, purr (v) -- Voragh Ca'Non Master of the Klingons _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
vIghro’ vIQoy. ‘Imyagh. jatlhlaHbe’ vIghro’. chuS neH. The suggestion is that {‘Imyagh} is a sound. It works in a direct quote and probably is an expletive, like {HIja’} and {ghobe’}. It’s not a verb. It doesn’t belong as part of a sentence. It is effectively a sentence unto itself. If a person makes the sound, then they could “say” the sound, but a {vIghro’} can’t speak. It can merely be noisy. And just as a direct quote is grammatically separate from the sentence about it being spoken, this noise would be grammatically separate from the sentence about it being heard. Mine is not the final word. I’m just a guy with an opinion, but I think it makes the most sense this way. charghwI’ vaghnerya'ngan
On Feb 13, 2019, at 7:47 PM, Jeffrey Clark <jmclark85@gmail.com> wrote:
This raises the question of how one should translate "The cat said".
IIUC:
‘Imyagh jatlh vIghro’
“The cat says meow” _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
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On Feb 13, 2019, at 21:15, Will Martin <willmartin2@mac.com> wrote:
The suggestion is that {‘Imyagh} is a sound. It works in a direct quote and probably is an expletive, like {HIja’} and {ghobe’}. It’s not a verb. It doesn’t belong as part of a sentence. It is effectively a sentence unto itself.
I think this depends on a nuanced definition of {jatlh} that we can’t make without input from matlh. Assuming that a vIghro’ vocalisation of ‘Imyagh is produced by a similar mechanism as a Terran cat (which would be odd given the nature of the sound), it follows the same process that Humans (and therefore Klingons). This is why cat’s meows and dog whines can resemble human vowels — because they basically are. In this case, if we consider the act of speaking as including all vocalisations (which ‘Imyagh would be), then it is something that cat “says”. But this may not be the case, {jatlh} may require that the “spoken” thing be verbally communicated language. In which case ‘Imyagh and welwelwel (by extension) would not be things vIghro’mey and targhmey “say”. ‘a tera’ vIghrowIj rurchuq matlh vIghro’, jatlhba’. —jevreH
On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 19:10, Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se> wrote:
(qurgh, 7/29/2017): The cat said, "meow". Marc said yes. The cat meowed as I walked by. Marc said no.
The original definition of {ghugh} is on the page "Other 3", and {'Imyagh} is on the page "Other 4": https://www.kli.org/activities/qepmey/qepa-chamah-losdich/qepa-chamah-losdic... This raises the question of how one should translate "The cat said".
Would you say
ghugh vIghro', 'Imyagh. or jatlh vIghro', 'Imyagh. or perhaps ghugh vIghro', jatlh, 'Imyagh. ?
Ignoring the page break between them, the way they're defined together suggests to me that you say {'Imyagh ghugh vIghro'} (or maybe {ghugh vIghro', 'Imyagh}). {ghugh} vocalize (v) (referring to sound emitted by an animal, but not speech) {'Imyagh} is the conventional way to express the sound made by a {vIghro'} or a {ghISnar}, for example. Considering the speech/non-speech distinction in Klingon grammar, I'd be inclined to limit {jatlh} to speech, i.e., exclude it from use for animal sounds. -- De'vID
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On Feb 14, 2019, at 01:37, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote
Ignoring the page break between them, the way they're defined together suggests to me that you say {'Imyagh ghugh vIghro'} (or maybe {ghugh vIghro', 'Imyagh}).
{ghugh} vocalize (v) (referring to sound emitted by an animal, but not speech) {'Imyagh} is the conventional way to express the sound made by a {vIghro'} or a {ghISnar}, for example.
Considering the speech/non-speech distinction in Klingon grammar, I'd be inclined to limit {jatlh} to speech, i.e., exclude it from use for animal sounds.
toH… I missed the distinction of ghugh. Thank you for the clarification. —jevreH
{ghugh} works for me. And just to clarify for anyone not altogether familiar with quotation, in Klingon the mechanism we have been given for quotation suggests that quotations are always “direct” as opposed to indirect (unless there’s a mechanism for that which has not yet been revealed), and the direct quote is grammatically independent of the sentence with the verb of speech in it. They are adjacent to each other, and it doesn’t matter which comes first. You can think of it like a looser variation of an “SAO” (Sentence As Object), except there is no pronoun representing the quotation, and it has no grammatical connection to the speech sentence whatsoever. Imagine English saying: My sister scolded me. “Come in out of the rain, you idiot.” Or “Come in out of the rain, you idiot.” My sister scolded me. Since there is no official punctuation for written Klingon, since the Romanized alphabet we use is merely a phonetic representation of spoken Klingon, and piQaD writing of non-Greeked text is fan-based, and acknowledged enough to put on Skybox cards, but not enough for Viacom to come out and admit that there is a right way to do it, and they pay Okrand, so he’s not going to step out of that box, we don’t have punctuation guidelines. We make that up, ourselves, and we lack the authority to make anything official. So, if you want to put a comma between what is grammatically two separate sentences, that’s probably okay. Others might use a period, instead. Maybe a semicolon would do. Many use << and >> as quotation marks, since actual quotation marks are easy to confuse with glottal stops. The devil is in the details. Basically, we use punctuation with Romanized letters and ligatures just to be clearer about what we are conveying. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Feb 14, 2019, at 1:37 AM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 19:10, Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se <mailto:felixm@kth.se>> wrote:
(qurgh, 7/29/2017): The cat said, "meow". Marc said yes. The cat meowed as I walked by. Marc said no.
The original definition of {ghugh} is on the page "Other 3", and {'Imyagh} is on the page "Other 4": https://www.kli.org/activities/qepmey/qepa-chamah-losdich/qepa-chamah-losdic... <https://www.kli.org/activities/qepmey/qepa-chamah-losdich/qepa-chamah-losdich-new-words/>
This raises the question of how one should translate "The cat said".
Would you say
ghugh vIghro', 'Imyagh. or jatlh vIghro', 'Imyagh. or perhaps ghugh vIghro', jatlh, 'Imyagh. ?
Ignoring the page break between them, the way they're defined together suggests to me that you say {'Imyagh ghugh vIghro'} (or maybe {ghugh vIghro', 'Imyagh}).
{ghugh} vocalize (v) (referring to sound emitted by an animal, but not speech) {'Imyagh} is the conventional way to express the sound made by a {vIghro'} or a {ghISnar}, for example.
Considering the speech/non-speech distinction in Klingon grammar, I'd be inclined to limit {jatlh} to speech, i.e., exclude it from use for animal sounds.
-- De'vID _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
participants (7)
-
Daniel Dadap -
De'vID -
Felix Malmenbeck -
Jeffrey Clark -
Klingon Word of the Day -
Steven Boozer -
Will Martin