Thanks very much for your replies ! I'll remember to avoid {'e' X-lu'} in the future. Now I wonder, what about {'e' X-vay'} ? can/should it be used when we have an indefinite subject? Does it add a nuance somehow or is "net" the preferred solution in all cases? For instance: qama'pu' DIHoHbe' 'e' Sov vay' : someone knows we don't kill prisoners Satlho'! ghItlhjaj 2017-11-30 21:34 GMT+01:00 SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>:

On 11/30/2017 2:12 PM, Aurélie Demonchaux wrote:

Today I am trying to grasp the difference between {net + verb} and {'e' + verb-lu'}

The way I understand it is, for example with "Sov"

net Sov = it is common knowledge that 'e' Sovlu' = someone (indefinite) knows that

Thus: qama'pu' DIHoHbe' net Sov = It is common knowledge that we don't kill prisoners qama'pu' DIHoHbe' 'e' Sovlu' = It is known / someone knows that we don't kill prisoners

Similarly with chaw' : qama'pu' DIHoH net chaw'be' = we are not allowed to kill prisoners qama'pu' DIHoH 'e' chaw'lu'be' = someone does not allow us to kill prisoners

Am I getting it right ?

My first attempt to answer this never arrived.

The "common knowledge" idea was invented by Klingonists' usage; it is not canonical. Back in the early *qep'a'mey,* it was a running gag to say *net Sov, net Sov!* in part because Captain Krankor's imperial anthem uses that in a line. There is no semantic difference between *net *X and *'e'* X*lu',* except that the latter is supposed to be ungrammatical.

The rules say that, except for the recent exception with *'aq,* one uses *net* when the subject of the second sentence is indefinite, not *'e' *X *-lu'.* Okrand breaks this rule occasionally, and when and why one can break the rule is unknown.

I believe he breaks the rule for the same reason I do sometimes: it's easy to forget to use *net.* I think he does it in error. Of course, if he ever decided to explain what's going on, he'll invent some reason why all the examples we have of apparent rules-violations are actually special cases, and here's what's REALLY going on, and that'll be that.

-- SuStelhttp://trimboli.name

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You can say that, but *vay'* is not an indefinite subject. It sounds in Klingon like the difference in English between *It's known we kill prisoners* and *Someone knows we kill prisoners.*My advice is to use *net* whenever possible, because it deserves some love and you'll look spiffy using it.

DaH jIyaj, qatlho' SuStel :) 2017-11-30 21:56 GMT+01:00 SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>:

On 11/30/2017 3:47 PM, Aurélie Demonchaux wrote:

I'll remember to avoid {'e' X-lu'} in the future.

Now I wonder, what about {'e' X-vay'} ? can/should it be used when we have an indefinite subject? Does it add a nuance somehow or is "net" the preferred solution in all cases?

For instance: qama'pu' DIHoHbe' 'e' Sov vay' : someone knows we don't kill prisoners

You can say that, but *vay'* is not an indefinite subject. It sounds in Klingon like the difference in English between *It's known we kill prisoners* and *Someone knows we kill prisoners.*

My advice is to use *net* whenever possible, because it deserves some love and you'll look spiffy using it.

-- SuStelhttp://trimboli.name

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