Klingon Word of the Day: taHqeq
Klingon Word of the Day for Monday, January 04, 2021 Klingon word: taHqeq Part of speech: excl Definition: (curse) epithet, insult Source: This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh@kli.org).
Klingon Word of the Day for Monday, January 04, 2021 Klingon word: taHqeq Part of speech: excl Definition: (curse) epithet, insult Source: _______________________________________________ taHqeq! taHqeq! monbogh webbogh taHqeq! […] monlaH ‘ej montaH je taHqeq quvHa’. (TKH I, 5 [NON-CANON]) O villain, villain, smiling, damnèd villain! [… ] That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. (Hamlet I,5) When Picard failed to convince Governor Vagh that the Federation wasn't supplying weapons to Kriosian rebels, Vagh lost his temper and shouted: "You speak the lies of a *tahkeck*!" (TNG "The Mind's Eye") (CK): If you call someone this, stand back! This is a classic insult. (Mark Shoulson, HQ 3.1): This is someone you really, really don't admire at all, probably epithetical equivalent to {Qu'vatlh}. (nIqolay, 11/06/2015): Maltz thinks the word {taHqeq} is related to the expression {bItaHrup'a'} "Do you want to continue?", which is used defiantly before escalating an argument to the next level (punches or curse warfare). (De’vID, 7/12/2019): I once heard a theory that the insult {taHqeq} originates from {[yI]qeqtaH} in {no' Hol}, i.e., you're insulting your enemy by saying that they'll have to train a lot more before they can best you. -- Voragh, Ca'Non Master of the Klingons Please contribute relevant vocabulary from the last year or two. I’ve fallen behind in updating my files and adding cross-references for related words.
On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 17:08, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
(nIqolay, 11/06/2015): Maltz thinks the word {taHqeq} is related to the expression {bItaHrup'a'} "Do you want to continue?", which is used defiantly before escalating an argument to the next level (punches or curse warfare).
Is there an original source (e.g., {HolQeD} article, official Star Trek website) for this claim? -- De'vID
Am 14.01.2021 um 14:27 schrieb De'vID:
(nIqolay, 11/06/2015): Maltz thinks the word {taHqeq} is related to the expression {bItaHrup'a'} "Do you want to continue?", which is used defiantly before escalating an argument to the next level (punches or curse warfare).
Is there an original source (e.g., {HolQeD} article, official Star Trek website) for this claim?
{HolQeD} 12:3, pages 8-10 - September 2003 <<<<<<<<<<<<< There is, however, an expression that serves a similar role, including the defiance but lacking the exasperation. If one were to hear one Klingon say to another, {bItaHrup'a'}? <are you prepared to continue?> ({bI-} <you>, {taH} <continue>, {-rup} <ready, prepared, {-'a'} <question>), one should probably either stand back or get closer, depending upon whether one thinks a fight or stimulating round of curse warfare is about to ensue. The expression carries the element of defiance only if the pronominal element is second person ({SutaHrup'a'} is the form used when addressing a group rather than an individual [{Su-} <you (plural)>]). {taHrup'a'} means merely <is he/she (orare they) ready to continue?> It's just a question. Even with a second-person pronoun, in a context that is clearly nonconfrontational, the phrase {bItaHrup'a'} (or {SutaHrup'a'}) could be used to convey its literal meaning, <Are you ready to continue?"> [[":=]] The defiant sense of the expression, however, is more common. Maltz felt sure that there was a connection between this expression and the expletive {taHqeq}, but he couldn't explain exactly what the connection was.
>>>>>
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/En/HolQeD
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 at 14:46, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
{HolQeD} 12:3, pages 8-10 - September 2003
<<<<<<<<<<<<< There is, however, an expression that serves a similar role, including the defiance but lacking the exasperation. If one were to hear one Klingon say to another, {bItaHrup'a'}? <are you prepared to continue?> ({bI-} <you>, {taH} <continue>, {-rup} <ready, prepared, {-'a'} <question>), one should probably either stand back or get closer, depending upon whether one thinks a fight or stimulating round of curse warfare is about to ensue. The expression carries the element of defiance only if the pronominal element is second person ({SutaHrup'a'} is the form used when addressing a group rather than an individual [{Su-} <you (plural)>]). {taHrup'a'} means merely <is he/she (orare they) ready to continue?> It's just a question. Even with a second-person pronoun, in a context that is clearly nonconfrontational, the phrase {bItaHrup'a'} (or {SutaHrup'a'}) could be used to convey its literal meaning, <Are you ready to continue?"> [[":=]] The defiant sense of the expression, however, is more common.
Maltz felt sure that there was a connection between this expression and the expletive {taHqeq}, but he couldn't explain exactly what the connection was.
>>>>>>
Amazing. I wonder how many tidbits like this are floating around in miscellaneous articles (HolQeD, newsgroup postings) which most people aren't aware of? I've been quite meticulous in collecting these things (and documenting them in the {boQwI'} database), but I've somehow missed this. Someone really needs to make an updated edition to The Klingon Dictionary which incorporates information like this. -- De'vID
Am 20.01.2021 um 07:53 schrieb De'vID:
Amazing. I wonder how many tidbits like this are floating around in miscellaneous articles (HolQeD, newsgroup postings) which most people aren't aware of? I've been quite meticulous in collecting these things (and documenting them in the {boQwI'} database), but I've somehow missed this. Someone really needs to make an updated edition to The Klingon Dictionary which incorporates information like this.
This idea pops up every few years, and it's surely a good idea. It just has two major problems: a) Copyright issue, since they simply won't allow us to do it. (And this conserns not only CBS. HolQeD also has a copyright notice) b) It's a hell of work to compile all that information. This is not only about collecting the information; to have it in a kind of book/collection, it needs hours and hours of formatting, spell checking, layout, design etc. The only solution that seems to be working is what we are doing right now: try to set up an online compendium, like you do with boQwI', and I do with my Klingon Wiki. An honestly, coming back to problem "b": How many people do you really have in your team working on boQwI'? I have given up asking people for assistance for my wiki. :-( http://klingon.wiki/Word/taHkek -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com
I can no longer pride myself in any current role within the lunatic fringe maintaining Klingon stuff, though I am proud of my original Annotated Klingon Dictionary, awakening others to the importance of keeping notes about sources. I’m also proud of starting the New Words List before handing it over to other capable hands. This community is well served by volunteer efforts to be sure about what is correct. The task has always been borderline impossible, since the perimeter has always been porous and there have always been pretenders, like novel authors who don’t bother consulting Okrand, or individuals who want a particular word so badly they just make it up, so that they could expedite their translation of some “great, significant” work, or some such. And yet, through all these years, we’ve managed to have a wonderful collection of people to step up to the plate and keep the language alive. I’m sure Okrand is still stunned by the work of this community. He did this joking, nerdy thing all those years ago, and we’ve kept it going far beyond any ambition he ever had for it. We have made him far more significant than he otherwise could have been. It’s interesting, this interaction between this language and those who learn it. I was once surprised by the realization that for all I’ve done in my life, as silly as my Klingon work has been (viewed from the broader cultural sense of history or destiny), the Klingon language gave me an opportunity to be among the best in the world at doing something. It may be a silly thing, even embarrassing to admit to in conversation among many acquaintances, and certainly making me the butt of more than a few jokes among associates, but I look around and wonder what else I could ever do and have so few others in a line of those better than me at those things? Martial arts? Yeah, right. I’m apparently “naturally skilled”, but insufficiently disciplined to dedicate myself to noteworthy status. Computer support? I’m good, but there are a LOT of good people doing this. Theoretical physics? Lacking any family background in academics or wealth, humble roots eliminated any opportunity to acquire credentials as a foundation. Flight? I can’t afford an airplane and am married to someone who would never accept the idea of an ultralight, and I wouldn’t have a place to keep even that. I’ve dabbled in a LOT of things as an over-thinker with wandering interest among many topics, but the one area where I can count myself as among the best, most historically significant couple dozen people in the world, the Klingon language has given me a place to shine. I shine less now, and others are welcome to shine more. Still, we shine here. That’s what drives us. We want to be among the best in the world at something, and we’ve found that thing in the Klingon Language. We are at our best when we shine cooperatively, polishing the resources available to the community. We shine less brightly when we go at it with sharp elbows, more intent upon dissing others than improving the resources for the whole community, but it’s really hard to not shove back when shoved, and there have always been those who, without doing the work or earning the stripes or caring about the language or the community, charge ahead, trying to take over the language as a “leader”, downplaying Okrand’s simple ownership of the language as its originator. There’s always been someone declaring that it’s time to dump Okrand and take over the language, ourselves, and THOSE people needed to be shoved. I’ve done more than my share of shoving. Much of it was necessary, in defense of the integrity of the language. Some of it was not justified, but instead merely acting out of habit from the justified shoving. When you’ve shoved for good reasons enough times, it becomes a little too easy to shove yourself past the point of being an asshole. I’m not an asshole, but on this list, I have had my moments where I was indistinguishable from an asshole. We need to shove invaders. Among those working for the language Okrand is still the sole source of, we don’t need to shove each other. Our work will never be perfect, but wow. It shines. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Jan 20, 2021, at 2:09 AM, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 20.01.2021 um 07:53 schrieb De'vID:
Amazing. I wonder how many tidbits like this are floating around in miscellaneous articles (HolQeD, newsgroup postings) which most people aren't aware of? I've been quite meticulous in collecting these things (and documenting them in the {boQwI'} database), but I've somehow missed this. Someone really needs to make an updated edition to The Klingon Dictionary which incorporates information like this.
This idea pops up every few years, and it's surely a good idea. It just has two major problems:
a) Copyright issue, since they simply won't allow us to do it. (And this conserns not only CBS. HolQeD also has a copyright notice)
b) It's a hell of work to compile all that information. This is not only about collecting the information; to have it in a kind of book/collection, it needs hours and hours of formatting, spell checking, layout, design etc.
The only solution that seems to be working is what we are doing right now: try to set up an online compendium, like you do with boQwI', and I do with my Klingon Wiki. An honestly, coming back to problem "b": How many people do you really have in your team working on boQwI'? I have given up asking people for assistance for my wiki. :-(
http://klingon.wiki/Word/taHkek
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Well said, and I commend you and all those stars whom you refer to. As for Okrand owning the language, I don't believe that's true, or even possible. (Not to mention Paramount's claims of ownership.) OTOH, what is accepted as canon and 'true' is what comes directly from Okrand, and this is how we distinguish between real and fake Klingon. It's not about ownership of the language, but about acceptance of a language authority. lay'tel SIvten On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 9:43 AM Will Martin <willmartin2@mac.com> wrote:
I can no longer pride myself in any current role within the lunatic fringe maintaining Klingon stuff, though I am proud of my original Annotated Klingon Dictionary, awakening others to the importance of keeping notes about sources. I’m also proud of starting the New Words List before handing it over to other capable hands. This community is well served by volunteer efforts to be sure about what is correct.
The task has always been borderline impossible, since the perimeter has always been porous and there have always been pretenders, like novel authors who don’t bother consulting Okrand, or individuals who want a particular word so badly they just make it up, so that they could expedite their translation of some “great, significant” work, or some such.
And yet, through all these years, we’ve managed to have a wonderful collection of people to step up to the plate and keep the language alive. I’m sure Okrand is still stunned by the work of this community. He did this joking, nerdy thing all those years ago, and we’ve kept it going far beyond any ambition he ever had for it. We have made him far more significant than he otherwise could have been.
It’s interesting, this interaction between this language and those who learn it. I was once surprised by the realization that for all I’ve done in my life, as silly as my Klingon work has been (viewed from the broader cultural sense of history or destiny), the Klingon language gave me an opportunity to be among the best in the world at doing something.
It may be a silly thing, even embarrassing to admit to in conversation among many acquaintances, and certainly making me the butt of more than a few jokes among associates, but I look around and wonder what else I could ever do and have so few others in a line of those better than me at those things?
Martial arts? Yeah, right. I’m apparently “naturally skilled”, but insufficiently disciplined to dedicate myself to noteworthy status.
Computer support? I’m good, but there are a LOT of good people doing this.
Theoretical physics? Lacking any family background in academics or wealth, humble roots eliminated any opportunity to acquire credentials as a foundation.
Flight? I can’t afford an airplane and am married to someone who would never accept the idea of an ultralight, and I wouldn’t have a place to keep even that.
I’ve dabbled in a LOT of things as an over-thinker with wandering interest among many topics, but the one area where I can count myself as among the best, most historically significant couple dozen people in the world, the Klingon language has given me a place to shine.
I shine less now, and others are welcome to shine more.
Still, we shine here.
That’s what drives us.
We want to be among the best in the world at something, and we’ve found that thing in the Klingon Language.
We are at our best when we shine cooperatively, polishing the resources available to the community. We shine less brightly when we go at it with sharp elbows, more intent upon dissing others than improving the resources for the whole community, but it’s really hard to not shove back when shoved, and there have always been those who, without doing the work or earning the stripes or caring about the language or the community, charge ahead, trying to take over the language as a “leader”, downplaying Okrand’s simple ownership of the language as its originator. There’s always been someone declaring that it’s time to dump Okrand and take over the language, ourselves, and THOSE people needed to be shoved.
I’ve done more than my share of shoving.
Much of it was necessary, in defense of the integrity of the language.
Some of it was not justified, but instead merely acting out of habit from the justified shoving. When you’ve shoved for good reasons enough times, it becomes a little too easy to shove yourself past the point of being an asshole.
I’m not an asshole, but on this list, I have had my moments where I was indistinguishable from an asshole.
We need to shove invaders. Among those working for the language Okrand is still the sole source of, we don’t need to shove each other.
Our work will never be perfect, but wow.
It shines.
charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan
rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Jan 20, 2021, at 2:09 AM, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 20.01.2021 um 07:53 schrieb De'vID:
Amazing. I wonder how many tidbits like this are floating around in miscellaneous articles (HolQeD, newsgroup postings) which most people aren't aware of? I've been quite meticulous in collecting these things (and documenting them in the {boQwI'} database), but I've somehow missed this. Someone really needs to make an updated edition to The Klingon Dictionary which incorporates information like this.
This idea pops up every few years, and it's surely a good idea. It just has two major problems:
a) Copyright issue, since they simply won't allow us to do it. (And this conserns not only CBS. HolQeD also has a copyright notice)
b) It's a hell of work to compile all that information. This is not only about collecting the information; to have it in a kind of book/collection, it needs hours and hours of formatting, spell checking, layout, design etc.
The only solution that seems to be working is what we are doing right now: try to set up an online compendium, like you do with boQwI', and I do with my Klingon Wiki. An honestly, coming back to problem "b": How many people do you really have in your team working on boQwI'? I have given up asking people for assistance for my wiki. :-(
http://klingon.wiki/Word/taHkek
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
ghItlh lay'tel SIvten:
As for Okrand owning the language, I don't believe that's true, or even possible. (Not to mention Paramount's claims of ownership.)
Neither Paramount nor CBS have ever made claims of ownership. The closest that has happened is CBS's claim that the use of the Klingon language along with other recognizable features makes a creative work recognizably a copy of their copyrighted properties. CBS cannot have ownership of more than individual lines they asked Dr. Okrand for. If there is any ownership to be had (outside of published lines), it would belong to Dr. Okrand who created the language on his own and used it to provide the requested film and television lines and to write a book (from which text and quotes would also be copyrighted). However, the question of even being able to own a constructed language is highly suspect, though it has never been fully tested in the courts. The problem is that if CBS decides to ask the courts to test the limits of what it owns with regard to the language versus what fans can use with the implied consent of Dr. Okrand, the fans are likely to be at a financial disadvantage for proper defense. Jeremy
I apologize for the careless use of the word “own”, though in so doing, I proved my point, in that the community exists to agree upon what is correct, and since the vocabulary comes exclusively from Okrand (except when he graciously decides to accept words invented by others, like the famous {‘I’} for “armpit, and the names of creatures and weapons and ceremonies invented by authors of Klingon novels, and the original vocabulary from the first Star Trek movie, and the muffed lines and erroneous movie editing, giving an existing line a completely different meaning, and…), we continue to hold Dr. Marc Okrand as the highest authority in the language as known to humans, unless you wish to defer to Maltz, to whom Okrand defers. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Jan 20, 2021, at 1:49 PM, janSIy . <kenjutsuka@live.com> wrote:
ghItlh lay'tel SIvten:
As for Okrand owning the language, I don't believe that's true, or even possible. (Not to mention Paramount's claims of ownership.)
Neither Paramount nor CBS have ever made claims of ownership. The closest that has happened is CBS's claim that the use of the Klingon language along with other recognizable features makes a creative work recognizably a copy of their copyrighted properties. CBS cannot have ownership of more than individual lines they asked Dr. Okrand for. If there is any ownership to be had (outside of published lines), it would belong to Dr. Okrand who created the language on his own and used it to provide the requested film and television lines and to write a book (from which text and quotes would also be copyrighted). However, the question of even being able to own a constructed language is highly suspect, though it has never been fully tested in the courts. The problem is that if CBS decides to ask the courts to test the limits of what it owns with regard to the language versus what fans can use with the implied consent of Dr. Okrand, the fans are likely to be at a financial disadvantage for proper defense.
Jeremy _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org <mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org <http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org>
participants (7)
-
De'vID -
janSIy . -
Klingon Word of the Day -
Lieven L. Litaer -
MorphemeAddict -
Steven Boozer -
Will Martin