{chol} {ghoS} difference
Recently, I'm being troubled by the difference (if there's any) between the meanings of {chol} and the specific meanings of {ghoS} of "approach, proceed, come, follow (a course)", (i.e. excluding the "go away from" meaning). Let me describe, how I understand this difference, and if I'm wrong (which is usually the case), then please, do correct me. You're in america, and I'm in greece. If I say {Sachol}. then this means that "I get closer to you", but I don't reach the united states. While I'm {chol}ing, I'm travelling towards you, with the distance between us, becoming smaller. But if I say {SaghoS}, then based on the Ca'Non {bIghHa' yIghoS} "go to jail", it means that I actually reach the united states, i.e. I actually come to you. That's how I understand the difference, but since I'm probably wrong, if someone could clarify this, it would be great. ~ bara'qa'
On 11/26/2019 9:12 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
Recently, I'm being troubled by the difference (if there's any) between the meanings of {chol} and the specific meanings of {ghoS} of "approach, proceed, come, follow (a course)", (i.e. excluding the "go away from" meaning).
Let me describe, how I understand this difference, and if I'm wrong (which is usually the case), then please, do correct me.
You're in america, and I'm in greece. If I say {Sachol}. then this means that "I get closer to you", but I don't reach the united states. While I'm {chol}ing, I'm travelling towards you, with the distance between us, becoming smaller.
But if I say {SaghoS}, then based on the Ca'Non {bIghHa' yIghoS} "go to jail", it means that I actually reach the united states, i.e. I actually come to you.
That's how I understand the difference, but since I'm probably wrong, if someone could clarify this, it would be great.
Since we've recently learned that *chol* is transitive and inherently locative, this revises my understanding of these words. *ghoS* refers to the following of a path. *chol* refers to the reduction of distance between subject and object. They might be used interchangeably in some contexts but not in others. I don't think *ghoS* necessarily implies that you arrive at your destination. It means there's a course between you and your destination, and you're moving along it. You might move along the whole course, or you might only move along part of the course. *chol,* on the other hand, certainly implies not reaching your destination in the moment that one is doing *chol.* If I told you to *bIghHa' yIghoS,* I'm telling you to start moving from where you are toward jail. Although I intend you to end up in jail, I haven't actually said anything about arriving in jail. I haven't said *bIghHa' yIpaw.* And I wouldn't say *bIghHa' yIchol,* because I am actually implying that you should end up in jail, not just that you should reduce the distance between you and jail. On the other hand, if I wanted to whisper something in your ear but you were too far away, I could say either *HIghoS* or *HIchol.* Either way, you approach me, which lets me whisper in your ear. The words are effectively interchangeable for my meaning. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
I also feel that {ghoS} includes more the traveling part while {chol} focusses on the distance getting smaller. Imagine standing in line waiting for the bus. Everybody is standing still, nobody is {ghoS}ing anywhere. But still, there is this person in front of you who is somehow nervously tripping on his feet. Due to that, he is {chol}ing towards you. You would not say he {ghoS} to you. One other thing considers not so parallel tracks. While the earth flies around the sun, its path is not a perfect circle, it's an ellipse. So during a part of the year, {jul chol tera'}. Also, when driving on the high way on parallel track, your neighbor car may not be parallel to you. If they get closer to your track, I would use {chol}. Saying that a car {ghoS} to you, its intention is to hit you. We may all be wrong of course, and those words are just identical. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/Word/Chol
While this is an excellent analysis of the difference between HIghoS and HIchol, I’ll add another scenario to indicate a difference. Imagine that I have a pristine lawn, and I have an unusual interest in people not walking on the grass. I also have a serpentine, stone walkway up to my front door. You are at the street. If I want you to see a YouTube video I just found on my phone, I’d probably say, {HIghoS}, implying that I want you to stay on the serpentine walkway while you go from where you are to where I am. If you are holding a fire extinguisher and my phone just caught fire because of a defective battery, I might yell {HIchol!} suggesting that perhaps the path isn’t that important, considering the urgency. Go ahead and take the short-cut across the grass. I’m fine with that. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Nov 26, 2019, at 9:42 AM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 11/26/2019 9:12 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
Recently, I'm being troubled by the difference (if there's any) between the meanings of {chol} and the specific meanings of {ghoS} of "approach, proceed, come, follow (a course)", (i.e. excluding the "go away from" meaning).
Let me describe, how I understand this difference, and if I'm wrong (which is usually the case), then please, do correct me.
You're in america, and I'm in greece. If I say {Sachol}. then this means that "I get closer to you", but I don't reach the united states. While I'm {chol}ing, I'm travelling towards you, with the distance between us, becoming smaller.
But if I say {SaghoS}, then based on the Ca'Non {bIghHa' yIghoS} "go to jail", it means that I actually reach the united states, i.e. I actually come to you.
That's how I understand the difference, but since I'm probably wrong, if someone could clarify this, it would be great. Since we've recently learned that chol is transitive and inherently locative, this revises my understanding of these words.
ghoS refers to the following of a path. chol refers to the reduction of distance between subject and object. They might be used interchangeably in some contexts but not in others.
I don't think ghoS necessarily implies that you arrive at your destination. It means there's a course between you and your destination, and you're moving along it. You might move along the whole course, or you might only move along part of the course. chol, on the other hand, certainly implies not reaching your destination in the moment that one is doing chol.
If I told you to bIghHa' yIghoS, I'm telling you to start moving from where you are toward jail. Although I intend you to end up in jail, I haven't actually said anything about arriving in jail. I haven't said bIghHa' yIpaw. And I wouldn't say bIghHa' yIchol, because I am actually implying that you should end up in jail, not just that you should reduce the distance between you and jail.
On the other hand, if I wanted to whisper something in your ear but you were too far away, I could say either HIghoS or HIchol. Either way, you approach me, which lets me whisper in your ear. The words are effectively interchangeable for my meaning.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name <http://trimboli.name/>_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
participants (4)
-
Lieven L. Litaer -
mayqel qunen'oS -
SuStel -
Will Martin