I don’t have that gloss in my notes; it’s probably confused with {ja'} “report, tell” (also translated “speak of “ in paq’batlh). Voragh From: SuStel On 8/15/2019 11:00 AM, Klingon Word of the Day wrote: Klingon word: jatlh Part of speech: verb Definition: say, tell, speak Source: ADD Does jatlh ever really get glossed with tell? The original TKD had say and speak in translations, but only say in the Klingon–English word list and only speak in the English–Klingon word list. jatlh is repeated in both the Addendum word lists with say but not speak. ja' is tell (and report). I consider the distinction significant, because saying and speaking mean using language verbally while telling and reporting mean imparting information. Unless there is a further gloss not listed, this entry should be corrected.

I remember there being a time that Okrand explained that the difference between {jatlh} and {ja’} was that the direct object of {jatlh} was the language or the text being spoken, while the object of {ja’} was the person being addressed. This fits the differences in definitions given, since one speaks a language and one says a bunch of words, but one tells a person, or reports to a person. Meanwhile, I think that Okrand subsequently discovered an error in canon, or came to fear that there might be such an error, and backpedaled to expand the definitions so that the two words could be used interchangeably. Given that, I favor using {jatlh} when the direct object is a language or quoted words and {ja’} when the direct object is the person being addressed, and I silently forgive anyone, including Okrand, from not following this guideline. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.

On Aug 15, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:

Klingon word: jatlh Part of speech: verb Definition: say, tell, speak _______________________________________________

yIjatlhQo' Be quiet! Don't speak! TKD

bIjatlh 'e' yImev Shut up! Stop speaking! TKD/PK

bIjatlh 'e' yImev. yItlhutlh! Stop talking! Drink! TKW

tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh'a' Do you speak Klingon? TKD

tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhlaHbe' I cannot speak Klingon. TKD I don't speak Klingon. CK

bIjatlhQo'chugh if you refuse to speak. TKD

DIvI' Hol Dajatlh'a' Do you speak Federation Standard? CK

'eb Qav jatlhpu' He said, "Last call!" CK

qatlh bIjatlh? [Why do you say (that)? (untranslated)] PK

jIjatlhpa' jatlh Hovmey The stars will talk before I will. PK

'avwI'vaD jatlh qama' jIghung jatlh qama' jI'oj jatlh qama' jIDoy'qu' jatlh 'avwI' jIDoy'be' A prisoner says to the guard, "I am hungry." The prisoner says, "I am thirsty." The prisoner says, I am very tired." The guard says, "I am NOT tired." (PK)

qa'vam yuQ Quv DaghojmeH Duyma'vaD yIjatlh. [To learn the Genesis Planet's coordinates, speak to our agent.] (ST3 DVD case)

yIjatlh Speak! ST5 [occasional response to {nuqneH?}: "Sometimes the response is yIjatlh! (Speak!), after which the person who began the conversation continues." (KGT 184)]

Dajatlhbogh vIyajlaHbe'. yIjatlhqa'! I find no match for what you just said. Please say it again. (KCD .wav file)

qep'a' wejDIchDaq jatlhtaH tlhIngan Hol HaDwI'pu'. [untranslated] (MO to SuStel, st.klingon 11/1996)

SoHvaD pagh vIjatlh Human I have nothing to say to you, human. (ENT "Affliction")

DaH DIvI' Hol vIjatlhchoH. 'oy' HughwIj. [untranslated] (Vincent Van Gerven Oei's speech at qepHom wa'maHDIch]

jatlh 'e' mevDI' qeylIS, lop After Kahless's words, they celebrate (PB)

bIjatlhDI' bIval You speak wise words (PB)

jatlh 'e' mevDI' nuvpu' mejmoH ghaH ratlh be'nalDaj luqara' neH. After his last words, all were sent away, but his wife Lukara. PB

quv tIghmey Sov Hoch tlhInganpu' 'ej puqpu'chajvaD lutvam lujatlhqa' Every Klingon knows the way of honor, and teaches their children by this tale. PB

nuv 'umHa' leghchugh veqlargh ngoS nuv 'umHa' net jatlh Those unfit disintegrate at the glance of Fek'lhr so it is said. PB

tlhIH je qamra' puqloD pejatlh [translation unavailable] (PB)

qatru' jatlhlu'bogh yupma' Festival of the Spoken Nerd (MO to De'vID, 3/2015)

vulqan Hol jatlhlaHmeH Mr. Spock, vIghojmoHta' [I taught Mr. Spock how to speak Vulcan. [untranslated] (ASM)

naDev tlhIngan Hol wIjatlh We speak Klingon here. (DSC "Will You Take My Hand?" NON-CANON) [sign in the Orion market on Kronos in pIqaD and Orion letters)

(st.klingon 6/1997): The object of {jatlh} "speak" is that which is spoken. Thus, it's OK to say "speak a language", for example {tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh} "you speak Klingon". But it's also OK to say "speak an address, speak a lecture", for example {SoQ Dajatlh} "you speak an address" or, more colloquially, "you deliver an address" or "you make a speech". To say simply {jatlh} "he/she speaks" implies "he/she speaks it", where it is a language or a lecture or whatever. The indirect object of {jatlh}, when expressed, is the hearer/listener. Thus {qama'pu'vaD tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh} "you speak Klingon to the prisoners", {qama'pu'vaD SoQ Dajatlh} "you make a speech to the prisoners". "When the indirect object (in this case, the hearer) is first or second person, the pronominal prefix which normally indicates first or second person object may be used. There are other examples of this sort of thing with other verbs. For example, someone undergoing the Rite of Ascension says {tIqwIj Sa'angnIS} "I must show you [plural] my heart". The pronominal prefix in this phrase is {Sa-}, which means "I [do something to] all of you" in such sentences as {Salegh} "I see you [plural]" but when there's already an object (in this case, {tIqwIj} (my heart), the `object' of the prefix is interpreted as the indirect object, so {Sa-} means "I [do something to] it for you" or the like... Since the object of {jatlh} is that which is spoken, and since you or I or we cannot be spoken (and therefore cannot be the object of the verb), if the verb is used with a pronominal prefix indicating a first- or second-person object, that first or second person is the indirect object. Which is a not very elegant way of saying that {qajatlh} means "I speak to you or", more literally, perhaps "I speak it to you", where "it" is a language or a speech or whatever: qajatlh I speak to you Sajatlh I speak to you [plural] chojatlh you speak to me tlhIngan Hol qajatlh I speak Klingon to you. There's another wrinkle to this. The verb {jatlh} can also be used when giving direct quotations: tlhIngan jIH jatlh he/she says, 'I am a Klingon' jatlh tlhIngan jIH he/she says, 'I am a Klingon' (With verbs of saying, such as {jatlh}, the phrase that is being said or cited may come before or after the verb.) If the speaker is first or second person, the pronominal prefix indicating `no object' is used: tlhIngan jIH jIjatlh I say, 'I am a Klingon' tlhIngan jIH bIjatlh you say, 'I am a Klingon' There are instances where the pronominal prefix marks a big distinction in meaning: {tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh} "you speak Klingon" [vs.] {tlhIngan Hol bIjatlh} "you say, 'Klingon language'," [that is you say the phrase 'Klingon language'].

(KGT 30): Even though this is probably just a coincidence, there is a slang term {jat}, used throughout the Empire but somewhat more frequently in the areas near Ruk'evet, which means "speak incoherently, mumble", a notion with negative connotations for Klingons. Enunciating Klingon clearly is always important, but one should take extra care to not accidentally say {jat} (mumble) when intending the similar-sounding {ja'} (say), {jatlh} (speak), or {jach} (yell).

SEE: jatlhHa' say the wrong thing, misspeak (v) jatlhwI' speaker (n) nuqjatlh What did you say? Huh?! What did he say? (excl)

SEE ALSO: ja' report, tell (v) jaw chat (v) jach yell (v) jat speak incoherently, mumble (v)

ghugh vocalize (by animals) (v) tlhup whisper (v) Sor speak literally (v) SorHa’ speak metaphorically (v) yI' speak in an honorable or respectful fashion (v) qol pronounce (v) rev quote (v) maq proclaim (v)

QIch speech (i.e. vocal sounds) (n) SoQ speech, lecture, address (n) ghogh voice (n) wab sound, noise (n)

Note that {qol} was revealed to De'vID back in January and {rev} is one of the brand-new verbs from qep'a' 2019.

-- Voragh Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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yIja''egh (an example from TKD 4.2.1) -- ghunchu'wI'

On Aug 15, 2019, at 12:17 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:

In canon, Okrand has only ever used a word like lut as the object of ja'. He has never explicitly used a person as its object.

On 8/15/2019 12:27 PM, Alan Anderson wrote:

yIja''egh

(an example from TKD 4.2.1)

-- ghunchu'wI'

On Aug 15, 2019, at 12:17 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name <mailto:sustel@trimboli.name>> wrote:

...

In canon, Okrand has only ever used a word like *lut* as the object of *ja'.* He has never explicitly used a person as its object.

Hang on. I found a better example than that. *loDnI'Daj vavDaj je ja' qeylIS*/Kahless tells his brother and father/ (PB) But /paq'batlh/ also has *SengmeywIj vIja'laHbe'*/I cannot speak of my tragedies,/ *chaHvaD lut ja'*/told them his tale,/ *lut ja'taHvIS Hem rewbe'*/The people tell the tales with pride,/*le'yo' lutmey juja'pu'mo' qatlho'*/I think you, for your stories of pride/ (Hey, it's an example of someone saying *qatlho'*), *DaH naDev jIHtaHbogh meq Saja'*/Now I will tell you why I am here,/ *'ej mu'meyvam ja'*/And spoke these words,/ *qeylISvaD mu'meyvam ja'ta' molor qotar je*/This is what Kotar and Molor / Have said to Kahless,/ *ghIq pagh ja'taHvIS*/Then without a word,/ *quv HIja'chuqQo'*/Don't speak to me of honor!/ So going by /paq'batlh,/ it is possible to use a person as the object of *ja',* but it's FAR more common to use the words or information told as the object. My guess: the "natural" object of *ja'* is the direct object, the information or words told. When using a direct object, any indirect object must be explicitly marked with *-vaD.* But when there is no explicit direct object, the indirect object, the entity to whom something is told, can sit in the object position. Much like the way *-moH* seems to work with objects. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name

On 8/15/2019 1:09 PM, Will Martin wrote:

The existence of {ja’chuq} in the dictionary implies that the direct object is a person. There is no *{jatlhchuq}*.

No, it implies that the /object/ is a person. Klingon has both direct and indirect objects, and sometimes either can be placed in the object position. *ja'chuq* and *yIja''egh* imply that the person being told something can be the object, but it doesn't tell you whether that's a direct or indirect object. A word is not a direct or indirect object by virtue of its position or inflection; it's inflected or positioned according to whether it's a direct or indirect object (and the verbs they're attached to). -- SuStel http://trimboli.name