expressing "one of these people"
jIjatlh: romuluSnganpu' HoHta' wa' nuvpu'vam'e' one of these people killed the romulans lugh'a' mu'tlheghvam ? ~ Qa'yIn
chaq jIjatlhnIS: romuluSnganpu' HoHta' nuvpu'vam wa' 'a jISovbe'.. jumlaw' vay', 'a vay'vam vIngu'laHbe'.. ~ Qa'yIn
On 9/10/2020 9:38 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
romuluSnganpu' HoHta' wa' nuvpu'vam'e' one of these people killed the romulans
lugh'a' mu'tlheghvam ?
It doesn't break any rules. Is it the best way to do this? Probably not. Context would be better. nuvvam tInuD! romuluSngan HoHta' wa'. yIngu'! -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On 9/10/2020 9:53 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
jIH:
romuluSnganpu' HoHta' wa' nuvpu'vam'e' one of these people killed the romulans lugh'a' mu'tlheghvam ? SuStel: It doesn't break any rules
maj.
'a majatlh net jalchugh: {romuluSnganpu' HoHta' nuvpu'vam wa'}, vaj lugh'a' je mu'tlheghvam ?
I don't think it means what you want it to mean. *nuvpu'vam wa'*/these people's one./ -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
"One of NOUNS/PRONOUN" in canon: wa' yIHoH. jISaHbe'. Kill one of them. I don't care which. (ST3) wa' yIHoH Kill one (of them)! (TKD) ["The preceding sentence is grammatically correct even without the {wa'} because the prefix {yI-} indicates a singular object. The {wa'}, therefore, is used for emphasis only." (TKD 54)] qorDu' SaHlu'chugh 'ej matlhlu'chugh vaj wa' tlhIngan ghob potlhqu' devotion and loyalty to family is one of the most important Klingon virtues. (S13) No examples AFAIK of "one/two/three, etc. *of these/those* NOUNS". SuStel is right: Rely on context. -- Voragh Ca'Non Master of the Klingons -----------------------------------Original Message----------------------------------- On 9/10/2020 9:38 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
romuluSnganpu' HoHta' wa' nuvpu'vam'e' one of these people killed the romulans
lugh'a' mu'tlheghvam ?
It doesn't break any rules. Is it the best way to do this? Probably not. Context would be better. nuvvam tInuD! romuluSngan HoHta' wa'. yIngu'! -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 10:11 AM SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
I don't think it means what you want it to mean. *nuvpu'vam wa'** these people's one.*
Or "these people #1". Which doesn't mean very much either. On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 10:36 AM Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
qorDu' SaHlu'chugh 'ej matlhlu'chugh vaj wa' tlhIngan ghob potlhqu' devotion and loyalty to family is one of the most important Klingon virtues. (S13)
I think this sentence is missing a verb somewhere. "If one cares about family and is loyal, then <???> one very important Klingon virtue." I'm not sure what verb could go there. *pablu'* "one follows/adheres to", maybe? Also, for the original question: Would *loch* work? We only know it in the context of fractions, but the glosses "make up a portion of, constitute part of" suggest it could have non-fraction uses. *nuvpu'vam lochbogh wa''e' **one who makes up a portion of these people. *You could even try the other way around, with *yugh*: *wa''e' luyughbogh nuvpu'vam **one who is included among those people *(the passive voice is a little awkward for the English, here). That said, unless you're writing poetry or need to be exactly precise, you can probably just use *wa'* and rely on context to indicate that you're referring to "these people". If a detective in a murder mystery (*<tajmey luQIqlu'pu'>*?) gathers all the suspects in one place and tells the police officer *romuluSnganpu' HoHta' wa'*, the police officer can probably guess that the *wa'* is in reference to the people that the detective has rounded up.
Ca'Non ghantoHmey lInpu'bogh voragh vIHaDpu', 'ej vay' potlh vIqonnISchugh, vaj Ca'Non ghantoHmeyvam vIpabbej. .. 'ach QIn tlheghvam QInmey vorgh vIlaDtaHvIS, mumISchoHmoHpu' 'op De' vIlaDpu'bogh. jIH:
romuluSnganpu' HoHta' wa' nuvpu'vam'e' one of these people killed the romulans lugh'a' mu'tlheghvam ? SuStel: It doesn't break any rules.
{wa' nuvpu'vam} DIp-DIp tlhegh vIqeltaHvIS, mumISmoH vay'.. wa' (one) - singular nuvpu' (people) - plural But the {nuvpu'} is the head noun.. So, is the {wa' nuvpu'vam} singular or plural ? cha' mu'tlhegh veb tIlaD: romuluSngan HoHta' wa' nuvpu'vam one of these people killed the romulan (wa' nuvpu'vam singular) romuluSngan luHoHta' wa' nuvpu'vam one of these people killed the romulan (wa' nuvpu'vam plural) nuq 'oH mu'tlhegh lugh'e' ? jIH:
majatlh net jalchugh: {romuluSnganpu' HoHta' nuvpu'vam wa'}, vaj lugh'a' je mu'tlheghvam ? SuStel: I don't think it means what you want it to mean. nuvpu'vam wa' these people's one.
Do'Ha' jIyajlaHbe'; majatlh < baS 'In > "drum of metal", qar'a' ? vaj qatlh majatlhlaHbe' je < nuvpu'vam wa' > "one of these people" ? Qa'yIn
On 9/11/2020 9:14 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
{wa' nuvpu'vam} DIp-DIp tlhegh vIqeltaHvIS, mumISmoH vay'..
wa' (one) - singular nuvpu' (people) - plural
But the {nuvpu'} is the head noun.. So, is the {wa' nuvpu'vam} singular or plural ?
*wa'* is a number, not a noun. It does not participate in noun-noun constructions. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
Consider these alternatives depending on subtle details of your intent. nuvpu’vam’e’ romuluSngan HoH wa’ nuv. ghomvamvo’ romuluSngan HoH wa’ nuv. romuluSngan HoH wa’ nuv. ghomvamDaq ghaH. jISaHbe’. romuluSngan HoH wa’ nuv, ghIq ghomvetlh muv. romuluSngan HoHmeH wa’ nuv wIv ghomvetlh. Qu’Daj ta’. romuluSngan HoH ghomvetlh jeSwI’. romuluSngan HoH neH ghomvetlh, ‘ach vang wa’ nuv neH. Sent from my iPad
On Sep 10, 2020, at 9:38 AM, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
jIjatlh:
romuluSnganpu' HoHta' wa' nuvpu'vam'e' one of these people killed the romulans
lugh'a' mu'tlheghvam ?
~ Qa'yIn _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 9/12/2020 1:56 PM, Will Martin wrote:
ghomvamvo’ romuluSngan HoH wa’ nuv.
*-vo' *indicates motion away. The only exceptional example is *pa'vo' pagh leghlu'*/The room has no view/ (CK), which is easily explained by supposing that Klingon has the same "sight emanates from the eyes" conceptual metaphor that English has. This sentence doesn't work, because there is no motion away. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On 9/10/2020 9:38 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
romuluSnganpu' HoHta' wa' nuvpu'vam'e' one of these people killed the romulans
lugh'a' mu'tlheghvam ?
Considering further, I think you can pack nearly the entire meaning of this sentence into: *romuluSnganpu' HoHta' ngIq nuvvam. */A single one of these people killed the Romulans./ *ngIq* signals that the noun is either a single thing considered apart from others (what we want) or a sequence of similar things all acting in the same way. The context of whatever story you're telling would make it clear whether you meant this or /These people, acting one at a time, killed the Romulans./ But this technique won't work for /two of these people/ and so forth. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
participants (5)
-
mayqel qunen'oS -
nIqolay Q -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel -
Will Martin