Here is some information from Maltz that I can forward with NO SPOILERS concerning the coming episodes of ST:Discovery: Okrand suggested a way to say "polite" in Klingon, using {DochHa'}. For the glossary, he added: ------------------------- "be polite" is okay. Also "be civil, courteous." Very un-Klingon! ------------------------- Next, we talked about a "prophet". Not the religious person like Jesus or Mohammed, but more some kind of a person who seems to be able to see or know things that others can't. Okrand forwarded this from Maltz: ------------------------- This is a {tuch rItwI'} (or, if the context is clear, {rItwI'} for short). {tuch rIt} means "to prophesize, see the future, know the future." For Klingons, the "prophet" is able to "summon" the future somehow. ------------------------- -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Subtitles
Okay, so, I'm missing how this different from a religious prophet. I'd assume that, with context, one could refer to both Moses and a fortune teller. Or is there a connotation or denotation that specifically prohibits this word from being used to refer to a religious figure? ~Michael Roney, Jr. Sent from my Palm Prē -------- Original message --------From: Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> Date: 1/1/18 16:28 (GMT-05:00) To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org Subject: [tlhIngan Hol] Some more from Maltz Here is some information from Maltz that I can forward with NO SPOILERS concerning the coming episodes of ST:Discovery: Okrand suggested a way to say "polite" in Klingon, using {DochHa'}. For the glossary, he added: ------------------------- "be polite" is okay. Also "be civil, courteous." Very un-Klingon! ------------------------- Next, we talked about a "prophet". Not the religious person like Jesus or Mohammed, but more some kind of a person who seems to be able to see or know things that others can't. Okrand forwarded this from Maltz: ------------------------- This is a {tuch rItwI'} (or, if the context is clear, {rItwI'} for short). {tuch rIt} means "to prophesize, see the future, know the future." For Klingons, the "prophet" is able to "summon" the future somehow. ------------------------- -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Subtitles _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Am 01.01.2018 um 22:34 schrieb Michael Roney, Jr.:
Okay, so, I'm missing how this different from a religious prophet. Or is there a connotation or denotation that specifically prohibits this word from being used to refer to a religious figure?
I'm not sure, so I'll leave that to the experts. What I wanted to point at is that the term {tuch rItwI'} should be seen more literally as a "future-teller" or a "predicter". I think it would seem strange that if you translate a bible verse and end up with "future-teller Jesus". To me, the "prophet" from a bible sounds a bit like a holy person sent by god or so, and that's absolutely unrelated to {tuch rItwI'}. It may work, but I was only pointing that here, it's not really a religious term as described in wikipedia [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet] -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.com http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/StarTrekDiscovery
Indeed; since the word "prophet" is often used to refer to a sort of messenger of the gods (a {Qun Duy['a']}, perhaps, or a {Qun QumpIn} (slightly tongue-in-cheek)), I would imagine that a prophet may or may not be a fortune teller depending on what that message contains, and a fortune teller may or may not be a prophet depending on their method of telling the future. For example, a prophet who gives god-given advice about morality and reveals information about creation but reveals nothing of the future would not be a {tuch rutwI'}. Meanwhile, somebody who uses astrology to tell the future would be a {tuch rItwI'}, but may or may not be a prophet, depending on your use of that word (and your/their views on astrology). With both {tuch rItwI'} and {qut}, I wonder if the use of these words says something about whether or not the speaker believes them. Does using the word {tuch rItwI'} to describe somebody suggest that you believe them, while calling them a {qutwI'} suggests that you don't? Or does the addition of the "(suspected to be fraudulent)" to the definition of {qut} only reflect Maltz' own opinion on fortune-telling, while an astrologer might proudly admit to being a {qutwI'}? Sort of like the way that the word "homeopathy" is practically synonymous with pseudoscience in many people's minds while others swear by it.
Okrand suggested a way to say "polite" in Klingon, using {DochHa'}.
Related words: {yI'} - "speak in an honorable or respectful fashion" {SeQ} - "be formal, be ritualistic, be ceremonial" {Qut} - "be vulgar" {tay} - "be civilized" (not certain if this would be used to describe individuals, societies, customs or all of the above) //loghaD ________________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> Sent: Monday, January 1, 2018 22:49 To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Some more from Maltz Am 01.01.2018 um 22:34 schrieb Michael Roney, Jr.:
Okay, so, I'm missing how this different from a religious prophet. Or is there a connotation or denotation that specifically prohibits this word from being used to refer to a religious figure?
I'm not sure, so I'll leave that to the experts. What I wanted to point at is that the term {tuch rItwI'} should be seen more literally as a "future-teller" or a "predicter". I think it would seem strange that if you translate a bible verse and end up with "future-teller Jesus". To me, the "prophet" from a bible sounds a bit like a holy person sent by god or so, and that's absolutely unrelated to {tuch rItwI'}. It may work, but I was only pointing that here, it's not really a religious term as described in wikipedia [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet] -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.com http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/StarTrekDiscovery _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Religious prophets tend to come with a message from a divine source, and then speaks on a deities behalf. Klingons killed their deities, so they probably don't think they can send messages anymore. :D Secular prophets tend to come with a message based on knowledge and experience. Someone who somehow accurately knows when economic bubbles will pop before they do might be considered a prophet. A Klingon general that has the knack of knowing exactly when and where a enemy is attacking might be considered one too. Lieven, did we get a word for "prophet" and I missed it? qurgh On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 4:34 PM, Michael Roney, Jr. <nahqun@gmail.com> wrote:
Okay, so, I'm missing how this different from a religious prophet.
I'd assume that, with context, one could refer to both Moses and a fortune teller.
Or is there a connotation or denotation that specifically prohibits this word from being used to refer to a religious figure?
~Michael Roney, Jr. Sent from my Palm Prē
-------- Original message -------- From: Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> Date: 1/1/18 16:28 (GMT-05:00) To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org Subject: [tlhIngan Hol] Some more from Maltz
Here is some information from Maltz that I can forward with NO SPOILERS concerning the coming episodes of ST:Discovery:
Okrand suggested a way to say "polite" in Klingon, using {DochHa'}. For the glossary, he added: ------------------------- "be polite" is okay. Also "be civil, courteous." Very un-Klingon! -------------------------
Next, we talked about a "prophet". Not the religious person like Jesus or Mohammed, but more some kind of a person who seems to be able to see or know things that others can't.
Okrand forwarded this from Maltz:
------------------------- This is a {tuch rItwI'} (or, if the context is clear, {rItwI'} for short). {tuch rIt} means "to prophesize, see the future, know the future." For Klingons, the "prophet" is able to "summon" the future somehow. -------------------------
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Subtitles _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Am 01.01.2018 um 22:58 schrieb qurgh lungqIj:
Lieven, did we get a word for "prophet" and I missed it?
You obviously did, as it's included in the quoted message below. But actually, it's not a new "word":
------------------------- This is a {tuch rItwI'} (or, if the context is clear, {rItwI'} for short). {tuch rIt} means "to prophesize, see the future, know the future." For Klingons, the "prophet" is able to "summon" the future somehow. -------------------------
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Maltz
participants (4)
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Felix Malmenbeck -
Lieven -
Michael Roney, Jr. -
qurgh lungqIj