This page is quite complete: http://klingon.wiki/En/BodyParts Lieven. -- ssent forom the streets. Pkaese ecxuse any tpyos. Am 21. Juni 2020 21:40:44 MESZ schrieb Becky Nearing <beckynearing@myself.com>:
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On Sunday, 21 June 2020 20:55:40 BST Lieven wrote:
This page is quite complete: http://klingon.wiki/En/BodyParts
Lieven. Seeing some typos and omissions (will edit), here's what I have (likely with different errors/omissions/choices on what constitutes a body part). ===== | bem n sole [of foot] (body-part) +---- | bo n feather (body-part) +---- | boD n forehead (regional term) (body-part) +---- | burgh n stomach (body-part) +---- | chap n back [of hand] (body-part) +---- | cha'neH n forearm, lower part of the leg (body-part) [alone means "forearm". Precede by 'uS for "lower part of the leg". DeS cha'neH for "forearm" probably used only where you were talking about both the forearm and the lower leg.] +---- | chej n liver (body-part) +---- | chI'ID n uterus, womb (ncc) (body-part) +---- | chor n belly (body-part) +---- | DaQ n ponytail (body-part) +---- | DaynguH n testicle (body-part) +---- | DeS n arm (body-part) +---- | DeSqIv n elbow (body-part) +---- | DIr n skin, animal hide, hide (of an animal) (body-part) +---- | Do'ghI' n calf [back of lower leg] (body-part) +---- | Dub n back (body-part) +---- | DughrI' n skull (body-part) [nach Hom has been used for this, and that's fine] +---- | Du' ns2 plural [body-parts] +---- | Du'ran n philtrum (body-part) [groove between upper lip and nose] +---- | gham n limb of animal, animal limb (body-part) +---- | ghapqa' n jaw (body-part) [May be used for things that resemble anatomical jaws. In such cases, the plural remains ghapqa'Du'.] +---- | ghIch n nose (body-part) +---- | ghISDen n scales (animal covering) (body-part) +---- | ghIt n open hand, flat hand, hand (open/flat) (body-part) +---- | ghIv n limb of person, person's limb (body-part) +---- | ghop n hand (body-part) +---- | Hom n bone (body-part) +---- | HomwI' n toe (second), second toe (body-part) (toes) [little piggy stayed at home.] +---- | Ho' n tooth (body-part) +---- | Ho' tIq n fang [ncc] (body-part) +---- | Hugh n throat (body-part) +---- | Hutvav n nerve (anatomy, physiology) (body-part) +---- | Hutvav rarwI' n neural synapse (body-part) +---- | Huy' n eyebrow (body-part) +---- | Huy'Dung n forehead [regional term lit. above the eyebrows] (body-part) +---- | jargh n forehead (regional term) (body-part) +---- | jat n tongue (body-part) +---- | jIb n hair [on head] (body-part), comb (~ Ho'Du'), hairbrush (~ yachwI') +---- | joQ n rib (body-part) +---- | lem n hoof (body-part) +---- | lev n hard palate, roof of mouth (body-part) +---- | ley' n nose [regional] (body-part) +---- | loch n moustache (body-part) +---- | loDmach n male genitalia, penis (body-part) +---- | logh'ob n chest (body-part) [the upper front of the torso] +---- | luH n intestine, gut, bowel (body-part) +---- | lur n pupil [of eye] (body-part) +---- | marwI' n toe (big/first), big toe, first toe (body-part) (toes) [little piggy went to market.] +---- | mavje' n liver [regional] (body-part) +---- | mej'aD n artery (blood vessel) (body-part) +---- | melchoQ n marrow (bone), bone marrow (body-part) +---- | mIn n eye (body-part) +---- | mInyoD n eyelid (body-part) [lit. "eye shield" (used in Klingon Hamlet)] +---- | mIQ n forehead [regional] (body-part) +---- | mong n neck (body-part) +---- | mov n top of foot (body-part) +---- | muylIS n eyelash (body-part) +---- | nach n head (body-part) +---- | namwech n paw (body-part) +---- | nanwI' n toe (fourth), fourth toe (body-part) (toes) [little piggy had none.] +---- | nev'ob n thigh, upper arm (body-part) [is both, to make a distinction, precede with 'uS or DeS] +---- | nItlh n finger (body-part) (fingers) +---- | nItlhpach n fingernail (body-part), flat end of pigment stick +---- | nobmeD n skeleton (body-part) [qal'aq is fine for "skeleton" if modified: Hom qal'aq or porgh qal'aq] +---- | noq n nipple [plurals: noqDu' (anatomy), noqmey (on bottles etc.)] (body-part) +---- | no''och n forehead [regional] (body-part) +---- | nuj n mouth (body-part) +---- | ngech n valley, woman's cleavage (body-part), cleavage of woman (body-part) +---- | ngIb n ankle, knee. [also slang term of deprecation] (body-part) +---- | ngob'at n breast, tit (ncc), boob (ncc), mammary-gland (ncc) (body- part) [Female anatomy.] +---- | pach n claw, talon (body-part) +---- | paw'aD n vein (blood vessel) (body-part) +---- | pIp n spine, backbone (body-part) +---- | pob n hair [on body] (body-part) +---- | porgh n body (body-part) +---- | qab n face (body-part) [symbol of identity] +---- | qam n foot (body-part) +---- | qanwI' n finger (pinky/little, pinky finger, little finger (body-part) (fingers) +---- | qaywI' n finger (middle/second), middle finger, second finger (body- part) (fingers) +---- | qevpob n jowl, cheek (body-part) +---- | qewwI' n finger (ring/third), third finger, ring finger (body-part) (fingers) +---- | qey'Hav n vagina (body-part) +---- | qIv n knee (body-part) +---- | qIvon n unidentified body part (body-part) +---- | qogh n ear (external cartilaginous flap) (body-part) +---- | Qay'wI' n toe (little/fifth), little toe, fifth toe (body-part) (toes) [little piggy cried/blew its top.] +---- | QoghIj n brain (body-part) +---- | Quch n forehead (body-part) +---- | rajma' n kidney (body-part) +---- | reStav n shin, front of lower leg (body-part) [the bone is reStav Hom] +---- | rIlwI' n thumb [usually for a child's thumb. See also Sen.] (body- part) (fingers) +---- | ro n trunk, torso (body-part) +---- | rol n beard (body-part) +---- | roSwI' n toe (third/middle), middle toe, third toe (body-part) (toes) [little piggy had roast beef.] +---- | ro' n fist (body-part) +---- | Sa'Hut n ass (arse), arse, rear end, buttocks (body-part) +---- | SenwI' n thumb [usually for a an adult thumb. See also /rIl/.] (body- part) (fingers) +---- | SIqwI' n finger (first/index), index finger, first finger (body-part) (fingers) +---- | Somraw n muscle (body-part) +---- | tagh n lung (body-part) +---- | tel n wing (body-part) +---- | teS n ear (organ of hearing) (body-part) +---- | tIq n heart (body-part) +---- | toch n palm (of-hand) (body-part) +---- | to'waQ n ligament, tendon (body-part) +---- | tuqvol n forehead [regional, tuq possibly refers to family resemblances seen in forehead ridges, vol is unknown.] (body-part) +---- | turmIq 'enDeq n bladder (urinary), urinary bladder (body-part) [Strictly, the noun 'enDeq refers to anatomy, but it can be used metaphorically in other contexts, which is the way it works in English.] +---- | tlhon n nostril (body-part) +---- | tlhuQ n tail (body-part) +---- | va'nuch n heel [just of foot?] (body-part) +---- | volchaH n shoulder (body-part) +---- | wIlle' n joint (body-part) +---- | woS n chin (body-part) +---- | wuS n lip (body-part) +---- | yaD n toe (body-part) (toes) +---- | yeb n wrist [slang term of deprecation] (body-part) +---- | 'achler n nape, scruff, back of neck (body-part) +---- | 'aD n vein (general term for blood vessel) (body-part) +---- | 'aDtay' n circulatory system (body-part) +---- | 'aQlo n forehead [regional] (body-part) +---- | 'enDeq n bladder (urinary if turmIq ~, otherwise derived ncc) (body- part) [Strictly, the noun 'enDeq refers to anatomy, but it can be used metaphorically in other contexts, which is the way it works in English.] +---- | 'eQway n belly button, navel (body-part) +---- | 'InSep n penis (body-part) +---- | 'IvtIH n hip (body-part) +---- | 'I' n armpit (body-part) +---- | 'uS n leg (body-part) +----
On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 at 22:02, Jeremy Silver <jp.silver@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
+---- | loDmach n male genitalia, penis (body-part) +----
Was this approved by Okrand? A quick search turns up that it appeared in the novel "Star Trek Vanguard: Harbinger" on p. 202. I see that there's also a word *{tuQloS} from p. 200 referring to a kind of vitamin pill taken by a Klingon spy disguised as a Human, to overcome the deficiencies of non-Klingon food. Was Okrand involved in producing the words for this book? +----
| melchoQ n marrow (bone), bone marrow (body-part) +----
I wonder if this is a mass noun or if it ever takes the plural suffix.
+---- | mInyoD n eyelid (body-part) [lit. "eye shield" (used in Klingon Hamlet)] +----
Used in Hamlet, but (retroactively) made canon by Okrand.
+---- | ngIb n ankle, knee. [also slang term of deprecation] (body-part) +----
Somewhat tangential question: would the plural suffix {-Du'} be used for {ngIb} and {yeb} even when referring disparagingly to beings capable of language?
+---- | pIp n spine, backbone (body-part) +----
The "backbone" part is non-canon?
+---- | porgh n body (body-part) +----
This is kind of a philosophical question, but is a body a body part? A mathematician or philosopher might answer, yes, it is a body part, namely the part corresponding to the whole. But the relevant question here is how would one pluralise "two bodies", {cha' porghDu'} or {cha' porghmey}? Or is it context-dependent?
+---- | tel n wing (body-part) +----
I wonder if a {toQDuj} has {telmey} or {telDu'}?
+---- | 'aDtay' n circulatory system (body-part) +----
Source? -- De'vID
Am 22.06.2020 um 09:18 schrieb De'vID:
This is kind of a philosophical question, but is a body a body part? A mathematician or philosopher might answer, yes, it is a body part, namely the part corresponding to the whole. But the relevant question here is how would one pluralise "two bodies", {cha' porghDu'} or {cha' porghmey}? Or is it context-dependent?
I'm not sure about the source or if it's canon, but I remember that the general consent is that as {porgh} means "body" it just cannot be a body PART. Therefore, the plural should be {porghmey}. I think {porghDu'} sounds strange; I would wonder "body part of what?" And I certainly would enjoy arguing about mathematics and philosophy, because I see it differently: for me, the definition of a "part of X" means "section of X", so not the entire thing (X). Think of a "puzzle part" refers to a piece of a puzzle and would take {-Du'}, whereas a puzzle itself would take the {-mey} suffix. Setting complete aside the question of what happens if the body is capable of speech? ;-) -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/Word/Porgh
Am 22.06.2020 um 10:23 schrieb Lieven L. Litaer:
I'm not sure about the source or if it's canon, but I remember that the general consent is that as {porgh} means "body" it just cannot be a body PART.
EDIT: What I mean with this is that I understand anything defined as "body part" can be be "detached from the body". So thinking as a {porgh} being detachd from a {porgh} creates a paradoxon. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/En/Hamletmachine
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 10:31, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 22.06.2020 um 10:23 schrieb Lieven L. Litaer:
I'm not sure about the source or if it's canon, but I remember that the general consent is that as {porgh} means "body" it just cannot be a body PART.
EDIT: What I mean with this is that I understand anything defined as "body part" can be be "detached from the body". So thinking as a {porgh} being detachd from a {porgh} creates a paradoxon.
You're obviously unfamiliar with the genre of the combiner robot: https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Combiner If five robots combine together into one giant robot, and you cut off its arms (each of which is the body of a smaller robot), can it be said to have lost {cha' porghDu'}? Or only {cha' DeSDu'}? -- De'vID
lieven:
Setting complete aside the question of what happens if the body is capable of speech? ;-)
Perhaps this depends on the metaphysical/spiritual individual beliefs, but I don't think it's the body which is capable of speech. It's rather the spirit which dwells in the body. Even in the ridiculous way of approach, of "what klingons would or would not think", I believe that a race concerned so much with the afterlife, would see it as "the spirit does the speaking through the body". ~ Qa'yIn
On Monday, 22 June 2020 08:18:13 BST De'vID wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 at 22:02, Jeremy Silver <jp.silver@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
+----
| loDmach n male genitalia, penis (body-part)
+----
Was this approved by Okrand? A quick search turns up that it appeared in the novel "Star Trek Vanguard: Harbinger" on p. 202.
Don't recall. Probably forgot the tag, I'll mark as ncc in my database for now.
+----
| melchoQ n marrow (bone), bone marrow (body-part)
+----
I wonder if this is a mass noun or if it ever takes the plural suffix.
+----
| mInyoD n eyelid (body-part) [lit. "eye shield" (used in Klingon
Hamlet)] +----
Used in Hamlet, but (retroactively) made canon by Okrand.
+----
| pIp n spine, backbone (body-part)
+----
The "backbone" part is non-canon?
Possibly another one I added but didn't tag ncc. KGT notes pIp as a body-part, and backbone is most likely, but on reflection maybe it could also refer to a sea urchin DuQwI'.
+----
| 'aDtay' n circulatory system (body-part)
+----
Source?
Now I can't find it, and didn't note it either. But the kli mailing list archive spider search page is not showing up (did the "update" kill it?), so one avenue to confirm is eliminated.
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 11:29, Jeremy Silver <jp.silver@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
On Monday, 22 June 2020 08:18:13 BST De'vID wrote:
+----
| 'aDtay' n circulatory system (body-part)
+----
Source?
Now I can't find it, and didn't note it either. But the kli mailing list archive spider search page is not showing up (did the "update" kill it?), so one avenue to confirm is eliminated.
The KLI mailing list archive shows that it was made up by peHruS: https://www.kli.org/tlhIngan-Hol/1998/January/msg00241.html Thus, not canon (at least until Marc Okrand hears about it and retroactively canonises it!). -- De'vID
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 11:29, Jeremy Silver <jp.silver@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
On Monday, 22 June 2020 08:18:13 BST De'vID wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 at 22:02, Jeremy Silver <jp.silver@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
+----
| loDmach n male genitalia, penis (body-part)
+----
Was this approved by Okrand? A quick search turns up that it appeared in the novel "Star Trek Vanguard: Harbinger" on p. 202.
Don't recall. Probably forgot the tag, I'll mark as ncc in my database for now.
Given that {'InSep} was later revealed, probably not? {loDmach} seems just like the kind of thing a Star Trek novelist would make up after consulting The Klingon Dictionary. -- De'vID
Am 22.06.2020 um 23:46 schrieb De'vID:
> Was this approved by Okrand? A quick search turns up that it appeared in > the novel "Star Trek Vanguard: Harbinger" on p. 202.
Not, it was not. I asked the author David Mack and he told me that he "concocted them from word fragments in the Klingon Dictionary." He also added with a smile that "We'll assume they're from an obscure older dialect of tlhIngan Hol". -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/En/StarTrekHarbinger
participants (6)
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Becky Nearing -
De'vID -
Jeremy Silver -
Lieven -
Lieven L. Litaer
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mayqel qunen'oS