We know we can say: qagh (lu)Sop 'op some eat qagh (I don't know whether {'op} is to be treated as grammatically singular or plural.. If someone knows, please enlighten me..) But I wonder, whether it'd be correct to say: qagh luSop 'op puS few eat qagh I can't see anything grammatically wrong with it, (although qeylIS knows, I don't know jack qeQ when it comes to grammar..). But I can't stop wondering, whether it actually makes sense.. ~ mayqel qunen'oS nuloS yo' qIj, 'ach wIqotlh'a'
On 12/13/2019 11:58 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
We know we can say:
qagh (lu)Sop 'op some eat qagh
(I don't know whether {'op} is to be treated as grammatically singular or plural.. If someone knows, please enlighten me..)
But I wonder, whether it'd be correct to say:
qagh luSop 'op puS few eat qagh
I can't see anything grammatically wrong with it, (although qeylIS knows, I don't know jack qeQ when it comes to grammar..).
But I can't stop wondering, whether it actually makes sense..
Does it make sense? Maybe. Not sure. I don't like all the experiments people do with *'op,* apparently with English or some other language in mind. Is it valid? Dunno. Try *qagh luSop ghot puS* /Few people eat qagh, /*qagh luSop ghot puS Dep puS je*/Few people or beings eat qagh,/ or maybe even *qagh luSop puSwI'*/Those who are few eat qagh/ (though this one wouldn't be my first choice). Or *motlhHa' qagh Soplu'*/Qagh is not usually eaten,/ *pIjHa' qagh Soplu'*/Qagh is eaten infrequently,/ *qagh SopwI' puS law' qagh SopQo'wI' puS puS*/Qagh eaters are fewer than qagh non-eaters./ -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
ok thanks. But out of curiosity.. Does the {'op} on its own, need to be treated as grammatically singular or plural ? Do we have any Ca'Non on this matter ? Or is it one of those "ask qeylIS" matters ? ~ mayqel qunen'oS tlhIngan Hol naDjaj Hoch
On 12/13/2019 12:12 PM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
Does the {'op} on its own, need to be treated as grammatically singular or plural ?
Dunno. No canon that makes this clear. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 12:12 PM mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
ok thanks.
But out of curiosity..
Does the {'op} on its own, need to be treated as grammatically singular or plural ?
I don't think we know for sure. The gloss given in the back of KGT is
{'op} some, an unknown or unspecified quantity (n)
Since the gloss uses "an", you could make a small but nonzero argument that it should be singular.
Good question. Unless the Canon people have an answer, this is one of those areas where Houston, we have a problem. TKD and every other official source of Klingon vocabulary collectively fail to indicate whether specific nouns that imply a number are singular or plural, and English is very arbitrary about this. Everybody is singular. Doubt that? “Everybody wants to be happy.” Sounds right. “Everybody want to be happy.” Sounds wrong. Is wrong. See? All are plural. “All want to be happy.” {Hoch} can be translated as “everybody” or as “all”. So, is it singular or plural? Zero are plural. “Zero want to be sad.” Yes. In English, any number other than one is grammatically plural, so the word “zero" is grammatically plural in English. So, is {pagh} plural? Some are plural. “Some want popcorn.” Does Klingon follow the English convention? Maybe, but this is hardly given, until it is explicitly given. And, there is the possibility that Klingon is simply internally inconsistent. If Canon people find examples of these words used inconsistently, then maybe it’s regional, or slang, or simply something that never calcified within the grammar. Maybe it's squishy. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Dec 13, 2019, at 12:12 PM, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
ok thanks.
But out of curiosity..
Does the {'op} on its own, need to be treated as grammatically singular or plural ?
Do we have any Ca'Non on this matter ? Or is it one of those "ask qeylIS" matters ?
~ mayqel qunen'oS tlhIngan Hol naDjaj Hoch _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
participants (4)
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mayqel qunen'oS -
nIqolay Q -
SuStel -
Will Martin