This rings a bell, of something we'd discuss (quite) some time ago. But I *still* can't understand, which rule prohibits us writing: romuluSnganpu''e' chaH jaghpu''e' As for the enemies, they are the *romulans* i.e. placing an emphatic {-'e'} on the first noun of a be sentence. ~ mayqel qunen'oS reH tlhInganpu' taHjaj
On 12/13/2019 8:53 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
But I *still* can't understand, which rule prohibits us writing:
romuluSnganpu''e' chaH jaghpu''e' As for the enemies, they are the *romulans*
i.e. placing an emphatic {-'e'} on the first noun of a be sentence.
There's no known rule against it. However, the first *-'e'* would have to be interpreted as focus instead of topic, so the meaning would be /As for the enemies, they are ROMULANS (not somebody else)./ In other words, the topic *jaghpu''e'* tells you what the sentence is all about, while the focus *romuluSnganpu''e'* specifies Romulans instead of someone else. However, if Klingon had a rule which hadn't been mentioned yet, this would be my vote. I think it's very possible that Klingons just don't use *-'e'* on both sides of the pronoun. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
While I don’t disagree with anything in this discussion, for myself, if I wanted to emphasize the Romulans, I’d just say {jaghpu’ chaH RomuluSnganpu’’e’}. Why is, “As for the enemies, they are the ROMULANS,” preferable to “The Romulans are our enemies.” It’s more straightforward. Saying it the other way is kinda fancy-assed for Klingon. Language and culture are related. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Dec 13, 2019, at 8:53 AM, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
This rings a bell, of something we'd discuss (quite) some time ago.
But I *still* can't understand, which rule prohibits us writing:
romuluSnganpu''e' chaH jaghpu''e' As for the enemies, they are the *romulans*
i.e. placing an emphatic {-'e'} on the first noun of a be sentence.
~ mayqel qunen'oS reH tlhInganpu' taHjaj _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 12/13/2019 9:22 AM, Will Martin wrote:
While I don’t disagree with anything in this discussion, for myself, if I wanted to emphasize the Romulans, I’d just say {jaghpu’ chaH RomuluSnganpu’’e’}.
Why is, “As for the enemies, they are the ROMULANS,” preferable to “The Romulans are our enemies.” It’s more straightforward. Saying it the other way is kinda fancy-assed for Klingon. Language and culture are related.
Because the final noun of a pronoun copula is the topic of the sentence, what the sentence is all about. If you were in a situation where you were beset by enemies and thought they were Vulcans, and you told your comrade to use the Vulcan-only-killing poison he's carrying, your comrade might say **romuluSnganpu' chaH jaghpu''e'.** The topic of your sentence is the enemies, not Romulans. You're taking the topic of your sentence and identifying them. *Those enemies surrounding us? Lemme tell you what they are...* Now, this beset-by-enemies situation is exactly one of those where adding focus to the first noun makes perfect sense: **romuluSnganpu''e' chaH jaghpu''e'** *As for the enemies, they are ROMULANS (not something else, like Vulcans).* Again, I'm not saying this is necessarily allowed or disallowed, just that it would be something like this that would give this constructions its purpose. This has nothing to do with being fancy. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On 12/13/2019 9:45 AM, SuStel wrote:
On 12/13/2019 9:22 AM, Will Martin wrote:
While I don’t disagree with anything in this discussion, for myself, if I wanted to emphasize the Romulans, I’d just say {jaghpu’ chaH RomuluSnganpu’’e’}.
Why is, “As for the enemies, they are the ROMULANS,” preferable to “The Romulans are our enemies.” It’s more straightforward. Saying it the other way is kinda fancy-assed for Klingon. Language and culture are related.
Because the final noun of a pronoun copula is the topic of the sentence, what the sentence is all about. If you were in a situation where you were beset by enemies and thought they were Vulcans, and you told your comrade to use the Vulcan-only-killing poison he's carrying, your comrade might say **romuluSnganpu' chaH jaghpu''e'.** The topic of your sentence is the enemies, not Romulans. You're taking the topic of your sentence and identifying them. *Those enemies surrounding us? Lemme tell you what they are...*
Now, this beset-by-enemies situation is exactly one of those where adding focus to the first noun makes perfect sense: **romuluSnganpu''e' chaH jaghpu''e'** *As for the enemies, they are ROMULANS (not something else, like Vulcans).* Again, I'm not saying this is necessarily allowed or disallowed, just that it would be something like this that would give this constructions its purpose.
This has nothing to do with being fancy.
Those asterisks are what I get for replying to list mail immediately after writing on Duolingo. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
participants (3)
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mayqel qunen'oS -
SuStel -
Will Martin