Regardless whether you're translating your thoughts in klingon, or any kind of text, sooner or later you'll find yourself stuck at a word, you just can't find a way to express. When that happens, usually two things do the trick : 1. Take a break, close your eyes and try to *feel* that word. Almost always, when you *feel* that word, a way will appear in order to put it in klingon too. It took me a long time, to realize that "we express meanings in klingon" ; we don't just convert other languages' words in klingon words. 2. Find a thesaurus page on google, and search on that site for synonyms. 3. Most important : Even if klingon has a word, which translates exactly your foreign word into it, ask yourself : Even if you do use that word, is the outcome just as cool in klingon as it is in your mind's original sentence ? A while ago, I wanted to find a way to express in klingon : "you're the thorn at Light's side" ; of course, there is no klingon word for "thorn'. So, following steps 1 and 2, I found the solution : {wovlI'ghach joQmeyvaD wIl SoHtaH}. And it passes the test of the third point too.. mop Hurgh qunnoq
On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 11:58 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
A while ago, I wanted to find a way to express in klingon : "you're the thorn at Light's side" ; of course, there is no klingon word for "thorn'.
Is this a Greek idiom? I don't recognize it, and I don't know what it's supposed to mean. Light is capitalized, so I infer that it represents the personification of something, but there isn't enough context for me to identify that something. The phrase "at Light's side" implies that the thorn and Light are cooperating, though I'd usually expect a thorn to be a hindrance. If you had said "the thorn *in* Light's side", that would be a completely different thing, with the thorn injuring (or at least causing discomfort to) Light.
So, following steps 1 and 2, I found the solution : {wovlI'ghach joQmeyvaD wIl SoHtaH}. And it passes the test of the third point too..
"You are being a spike for the poetically-scattered ribs of the brightness in progress." Normally I'd be able to use the two languages to triangulate on the intended meaning. Unfortunately, neither the English nor the Klingon is clear enough for me to get a handle on what you're trying to say. Is the use of the general plural {-mey} instead of the body-part plural {-Du'} an error, or is it intentional? Is the {-vaD} supposed to be marking the target of the spike (I'd expect {-Daq} if so), or are the "ribs all over the place" somehow receiving the "you are" action? Your strategy is sound: express the meaning; don't just translate individual words. My problem is that I'm not able to get a clear meaning out of what you've written. -- ghunchu'wI'
On Monday 27 Jun 2016 16:47:23 Alan Anderson wrote:
Is this a Greek idiom? I don't recognize it, and I don't know what it's supposed to mean. Light is capitalized, so I infer that it represents the personification of something, but there isn't enough context for me to identify that something. The phrase "at Light's side" implies that the thorn and Light are cooperating, though I'd usually expect a thorn to be a hindrance.
Your strategy is sound: express the meaning; don't just translate individual words. My problem is that I'm not able to get a clear meaning out of what you've written.
The idiom carries over to English:- thorn in someone's side / thorn in someone's flesh: a constant bother or annoyance to someone So I'm guessing a translation would involve some variation on {nuQtaH}. The Light would I guess refers to Good/the Good side, and conversely Dark would refer to an Evil side of a battle/contest. Is {QaQ} the opposite of {mIgh}, or would you build something like mIghHa'? -- mupwI'
ghunchu'wI':
Is this a Greek idiom?
I don't know if we say it only in greece (although I don't thing many people actually say it here) ; the idiom/phrase goes something like "to be a thorn at someone's side", meaning "to be a constant annoyance". ghunchu'wI':
The phrase "at Light's side" implies that the thorn and Light are cooperating, though I'd usually expect a thorn to be a hindrance.
I hadn't thought that someone could translate the "at light's side", as "being an ally at the side of light" ; but now that you mentioned it, I understand that someone unfamiliar with the matter could indeed understand this to be this way. ghunchu'wI':
Is the use of the general plural {-mey} instead of the body-part plural {-Du'} an error, or is it intentional?
I wish I could say it was intentional, but unfortunately it was an error. ghunchu'wI':
Is the {-vaD} supposed to be marking the target of the spike (I'd expect {-Daq}
I thought of using {-Daq}, but I didn't, since I remembered that {-Daq} is to be used only for physical locations. On the other hand "the ribs" are a physical location but since they are used metaphorically, I decided eventually to go with {-vaD}. Jeremy Silver:
The idiom carries over to English:- thorn in someone's side / thorn in someone's flesh: a constant bother or annoyance to someone
yes indeed. Jeremy Silver:
The Light would I guess refers to Good/the Good side, and conversely Dark would refer to an Evil side of a battle/contest.
Your reasoning is sound, however -personally- I refrain from associating "dark" with "evil", because the whole "good or evil" matter is a point of view. Jeremy Silver:
Is {QaQ} the opposite of {mIgh}, or would you build something like mIghHa'?
This is a good question, but unfortunately I don't know the answer.. mIv Hurgh qunnoq On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 12:08 AM, Jeremy Silver <j.silver@mupwi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On Monday 27 Jun 2016 16:47:23 Alan Anderson wrote:
Is this a Greek idiom? I don't recognize it, and I don't know what it's supposed to mean. Light is capitalized, so I infer that it represents the personification of something, but there isn't enough context for me to identify that something. The phrase "at Light's side" implies that the thorn and Light are cooperating, though I'd usually expect a thorn to be a hindrance.
Your strategy is sound: express the meaning; don't just translate individual words. My problem is that I'm not able to get a clear meaning out of what you've written.
The idiom carries over to English:- thorn in someone's side / thorn in someone's flesh: a constant bother or annoyance to someone
So I'm guessing a translation would involve some variation on {nuQtaH}.
The Light would I guess refers to Good/the Good side, and conversely Dark would refer to an Evil side of a battle/contest.
Is {QaQ} the opposite of {mIgh}, or would you build something like mIghHa'?
-- mupwI'
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On Tue, 28 Jun 2016, 10:10 mayqel qunenoS, <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
ghunchu'wI':
Is the {-vaD} supposed to be marking the target of the spike (I'd expect {-Daq}
I thought of using {-Daq}, but I didn't, since I remembered that {-Daq} is to be used only for physical locations. On the other hand "the ribs" are a physical location but since they are used metaphorically, I decided eventually to go with {-vaD}.
But they denote a physical location within the metaphor. {bIQ'a'Daq 'oHtaH 'etlh'e'} - the metaphorical sword is in the metaphorical ocean {may'Daq jaHDI' SuvwI' juppu'Daj lonbe'} - when a warrior goes to either a physical or a metaphorical battle, he doesn't abandon his/her friends The fact that you're speaking metaphorically about a thorn in ribs doesn't change the fact that you're speaking about a thorn located in ribs. -- De'vID
De'vID :
But they denote a physical location within the metaphor.
Thanks for telling me ! On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 2:08 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016, 10:10 mayqel qunenoS, <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
ghunchu'wI':
Is the {-vaD} supposed to be marking the target of the spike (I'd expect {-Daq}
I thought of using {-Daq}, but I didn't, since I remembered that {-Daq} is to be used only for physical locations. On the other hand "the ribs" are a physical location but since they are used metaphorically, I decided eventually to go with {-vaD}.
But they denote a physical location within the metaphor.
{bIQ'a'Daq 'oHtaH 'etlh'e'} - the metaphorical sword is in the metaphorical ocean
{may'Daq jaHDI' SuvwI' juppu'Daj lonbe'} - when a warrior goes to either a physical or a metaphorical battle, he doesn't abandon his/her friends
The fact that you're speaking metaphorically about a thorn in ribs doesn't change the fact that you're speaking about a thorn located in ribs.
-- De'vID
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participants (4)
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Alan Anderson -
De'vID -
Jeremy Silver -
mayqel qunenoS