When did you buy the phone which you now use ?
I was wondering whether we can pack into a single klingon sentence, the question: "When did you buy the phone, which you now use ?" If we translated it exactly, then perhaps we would have: {ghorgh DaH ghogh HablI' Dalo'bogh Daje' ?} But the existence, side-by-side of {ghorgh} and {DaH}, results in an awkward sentence. The only solution I can think of, is omitting the {DaH} and placing a {-taH} on the {lo'} like this: {ghorgh ghogh HablI' Dalo'taHbogh Daje' ?} But would there be another way to do this ? qunnoq
On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 9:18 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
I was wondering whether we can pack into a single klingon sentence, the question:
"When did you buy the phone, which you now use ?"
If we translated it exactly, then perhaps we would have:
{ghorgh DaH ghogh HablI' Dalo'bogh Daje' ?}
But the existence, side-by-side of {ghorgh} and {DaH}, results in an awkward sentence
It doesn't seem that awkward to me. Since it doesn't make sense for the {DaH} to go with {Daje'}, it must be going with the relative clause.
Niqolay Q is right, but without any context I would have to think about it for a moment. In writing, punctuation is helpful: DaH ghogh HablI' Dalo'bogh, ghorgh Daje' ? The phone you’re using now, when did you buy it? Since you can’t see punctuation in speech, using {-‘e’} (topic) is helpful, as well as a slight pause after the first clause (which is what a comma represents): DaH ghogh HablI'’e’ Dalo'bogh [pause] ghorgh Daje' ? As for the phone you’re using now, when did you buy it? That phone you’re using now, when did you buy it? Before qunnoq asks… I’m using “that” colloquially as a topic marker in English – not necessarily to distinguish “that phone” (over there) from “this phone’ (in my hand). --Voragh From: tlhIngan-Hol [mailto:tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org] On Behalf Of nIqolay Q On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 9:18 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com<mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com>> wrote: I was wondering whether we can pack into a single klingon sentence, the question: "When did you buy the phone, which you now use ?" If we translated it exactly, then perhaps we would have: {ghorgh DaH ghogh HablI' Dalo'bogh Daje' ?} But the existence, side-by-side of {ghorgh} and {DaH}, results in an awkward sentence It doesn't seem that awkward to me. Since it doesn't make sense for the {DaH} to go with {Daje'}, it must be going with the relative clause.
All of these are indeed wonderful suggestions, but let me ask you something. Is the original sentence {ghorgh DaH ghogh HablI' Dalo'bogh Daje' ?} grammatically correct ? Can we have side by side {ghorgh} and {DaH} ? This has been the source of my confusion in the first place.. qunnoq On 11 Aug 2017 4:39 pm, "Steven Boozer" <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
Niqolay Q is right, but without any context I would have to think about it for a moment. In writing, punctuation is helpful:
DaH ghogh HablI' Dalo'bogh, ghorgh Daje' ?
The phone you’re using now, when did you buy it?
Since you can’t see punctuation in speech, using {-‘e’} (topic) is helpful, as well as a slight pause after the first clause (which is what a comma represents):
DaH ghogh HablI'’e’ Dalo'bogh [pause] ghorgh Daje' ?
As for the phone you’re using now, when did you buy it?
That phone you’re using now, when did you buy it?
Before qunnoq asks… I’m using “that” colloquially as a topic marker in English – not necessarily to distinguish “that phone” (over there) from “this phone’ (in my hand).
--Voragh
*From:* tlhIngan-Hol [mailto:tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org] *On Behalf Of *nIqolay Q
On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 9:18 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
I was wondering whether we can pack into a single klingon sentence, the question:
"When did you buy the phone, which you now use ?"
If we translated it exactly, then perhaps we would have:
{ghorgh DaH ghogh HablI' Dalo'bogh Daje' ?}
But the existence, side-by-side of {ghorgh} and {DaH}, results in an awkward sentence
It doesn't seem that awkward to me. Since it doesn't make sense for the {DaH} to go with {Daje'}, it must be going with the relative clause.
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 9:49 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
All of these are indeed wonderful suggestions, but let me ask you something.
Is the original sentence {ghorgh DaH ghogh HablI' Dalo'bogh Daje' ?} grammatically correct ?
Can we have side by side {ghorgh} and {DaH} ? This has been the source of my confusion in the first place.
Why not? You're allowed to use adverbials in relative clauses, and {ghorgh} goes at the beginning of the main sentence. It may or may not be awkward but I see no reason it would be ungrammatical.
On 8/11/2017 9:18 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
I was wondering whether we can pack into a single klingon sentence, the question:
"When did you buy the phone, which you now use ?"
If we translated it exactly, then perhaps we would have:
{ghorgh DaH ghogh HablI' Dalo'bogh Daje' ?}
But the existence, side-by-side of {ghorgh} and {DaH}, results in an awkward sentence.
The only solution I can think of, is omitting the {DaH} and placing a {-taH} on the {lo'} like this:
{ghorgh ghogh HablI' Dalo'taHbogh Daje' ?}
But would there be another way to do this ?
Your solution of adding *-taH* doesn't contain the /now/ meaning you're trying to move. This could just as easily mean /When did you buy the phone which you were using? / Relative clauses only like to get so complicated before they become confusing. I think you're correct in thinking that this one is awkward. The trouble isn't so much putting *ghorgh* next to *DaH,* but in recognizing that all the stuff you're saying after *ghorgh* is actually a relative clause -- you have to wait so long before you hear the *-bogh* that it may not be clear that it really is a relative clause, and you'll have to adjust your understanding of the sentence once you do figure that out. I would break the relative clause out into a topic, like so: *DaH ghogh HablI''e' Dalo'bogh: ghorgh Daje'?* This is still a single sentence, and it's technically grammatical, though it plays a bit loose with exactly what the object of the main clause is (it's *'oH*, not *DaH ghogh HablI''e' Dalo'bogh*). -- SuStel http://www.trimboli.name/
participants (4)
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mayqel qunenoS -
nIqolay Q -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel