If I want to say "one fourth of a region", then what do I say ? {loS loch wa' Sep} or {Sep loS loch wa'} ~ bara'qa'
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 15:12, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
If I want to say "one fourth of a region", then what do I say ?
{loS loch wa' Sep}
or
{Sep loS loch wa'}
cha'maH vagh vatlhvI' Sep. Note this line from Star Trek V: {cha'maH vagh vatlhvI' Hong, QIt yIghoS.} "Slow to one quarter impulse." If it were common to say {loS loch wa'} for "one quarter", Klaa would've said it. -- De'vID
If it were common to say {loS loch wa'} for "one quarter", Klaa would've said it.
I'm not so sure about that; different contexts and languages have different conventions when it comes to fractions, decimals and percentages. For example, a recipe is likely to call for "one half deciliter" or "0,5 deciliters" of flour, but not "50% of a deciliter". On the flip side, it's very common to write out discounts in percentage points, even when it's a common fraction like 1/2 or 1/4. We know that "quarter impulse" and "half impulse" are commonly used on Starfleet ships, which makes it suitable for the subtitle, but it may be that Klingons (or Klaa in particular) prefer to give them in percent; perhaps for consistency, perhaps for accuracy, perhaps simply as a matter of preference. //loghaD ________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2019 15:22 To: tlhIngan-Hol Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] expressing ratio On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 15:12, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com<mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com>> wrote: If I want to say "one fourth of a region", then what do I say ? {loS loch wa' Sep} or {Sep loS loch wa'} cha'maH vagh vatlhvI' Sep. Note this line from Star Trek V: {cha'maH vagh vatlhvI' Hong, QIt yIghoS.} "Slow to one quarter impulse." If it were common to say {loS loch wa'} for "one quarter", Klaa would've said it. -- De'vID
From: Felix Malmenbeck
If it were common to say {loS loch wa'} for "one quarter", Klaa would've said it.
We know that "quarter impulse" and "half impulse" are commonly used on Starfleet
ships, which makes it suitable for the subtitle, but it may be that Klingons (or Klaa in
particular) prefer to give them in percent; perhaps for consistency, perhaps for
accuracy, perhaps simply as a matter of preference.
Certainly Okrand’s preference. I imagine he didn’t want to figure out how fractions work in Klingon when he translated Klaa’s line for the movie. (It took him 30 years to do it; ST5 was copyrighted in 1989.) Voragh
On 11/6/2019 9:12 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
If I want to say "one fourth of a region", then what do I say ?
{loS loch wa' Sep}
or
{Sep loS loch wa'}
I don't think it's either. *loS loch wa'* is a sentence. You can't treat it like a number. I don't know how you'd use fractions to modify a noun. Maybe something like *loS loch wa'; Sep SubmaHvam vIche'*/I rule one-quarter of the region,/ literally /one is a fraction of four; I rule this fraction of the region./ -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
AFAIK Maltz didn’t explain how to use {loch} “be a fraction of, make up a portion of, constitute part of” with a noun: (qep’a’ 2019): {wej loch cha'} 2/3 ; {vagh loch wej} 3/5 ; {loS loch jav} 6/4. In theory, if appropriate in a mathematical discussion, one could say {wa' loch wej} “three one-ths”. (Though perhaps a little grammatically aberrant, this would not be {wa' luloch wej}.) We know that numbers precede the noun they refer to (e.g. {wa’ DuS} “one torpedo tube”) unless they’re a label or designation (e.g. {DuS wa'} “torpedo tube number 1”) , so let’s look at how the related nouns {bID}, {SubmaH}, and {vatlhvI’} are used: bID half (n) cha' choQmey naQ tu'lu' 'ej tep choQ bIngDaq lo' law' bID choQ tu'lu' 2 Full Decks and a Half Utility Deck under the Cargo Deck (KBoP) yopwaH bID shorts (pants) (TNK) paH bID skirt (TNK) DIr paH bID kilt-like garment (qepHom 2015) SubmaH fraction, ratio (n) (qep'a' 2018): can be used to mean “frequency” in such constructions as {wanI’ SubmaH} “frequency, occurrence ratio” or {yay SubmaH} “victory ratio” “or frequency of victories" vatlhvI' percent (n) cha'maH vagh vatlhvI' Hong, QIt yIghoS Slow to one quarter impulse power. (ST5) SIS 'e' 'aqlu', javmaH vatlhvI' DIch It is predicted it will rain, 60% certainty. (qep'a' 2017) Hmm… {vatlhvI’} precedes the noun, {SubmaH} follows the noun, while {bID} does both! -- Voragh Ca'Non Master of the Klingons --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mayqel qunen'oS If I want to say "one fourth of a region", then what do I say ? {loS loch wa' Sep} or {Sep loS loch wa'}
Am 06.11.2019 um 15:36 schrieb Steven Boozer:
yopwaH bID shorts (pants) (TNK) paH bID skirt (TNK) DIr paH bID kilt-like garment (qepHom 2015)
add to that moQbID - "dome" (TLP)
Hmm… {[...] while {bID} does both!
From the very few given examples, it is possible to interpret that when {bID} precedes something, it means "half of something" (bID choQ) while it follows a word when it modifies it without being literally dividing it into a half. None of the mentioned clothing are really "half": {yopwaH bID} are still pants, and a {paH bID} still is a {paH}. The {bID choQ} referred to on the other is really only half a choQ. Yes, it still is a choQ as well, but as compared to the others, it is only half, and not {naQ}. While I wrote this, I added moQbID, and thought it may contradict what I just said, but there still may be the difference I mentioned: {bID moQ} is a sphere that has been cut in half. {moQbID} otoh is a dome, it has not been cut in half. All of that, of course, as usual, is just theory until Maltz clarifies. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/StarTrekDiscovery
participants (6)
-
De'vID -
Felix Malmenbeck -
Lieven L. Litaer -
mayqel qunen'oS -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel