For those who like to read the original wording, I have uploaded the pages from the qepHom booklet into the wiki: http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/NewWordsQepHom2019 -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany"
On 11/20/2019 3:01 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
For those who like to read the original wording, I have uploaded the pages from the qepHom booklet into the wiki:
Does nobody understand the importance of searchable text? Not yet mentioned on this list is the information on page 12 that *-ngan* is generally translated as/people of,/ but that it's more generally used to indicate a group of beings, not necessarily beings from a particular place. Thus we have the answer to the old dilemma of whether a Klingon living on Earth could be called a *tera'ngan:* the answer is generally no, because *tera'ngan* is generally understood to refer to humans, but someone wanting to split hairs could legitimately claim that any inhabitant of Earth could be called a *tera'ngan.* Said person should be prepared to fend off an attack of eye-rolling. Also not yet mentioned is that Okrand declined to explain the word *roSHa'moH*/paralyze./ The word remains nigh-unusable because we don't know for sure how to inflect it. // Okrand resists a strict classification of words as nouns and verbs. One might consider *ret* to be two separate words, a noun and a verb, or one might consider it to be a single word that can be used as a noun or as a verb. He doesn't take a stand on a "correct" interpretation. This hearkens back to /The Klingon Dictionary/'s introduction of *-ghach,* where it is said that "it is not known if all verbs can be used as nouns." -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On Wed, 20 Nov 2019 at 15:21, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
Not yet mentioned on this list is the information on page 12 that *-ngan* is generally translated as* people of,* but that it's more generally used to indicate a group of beings, not necessarily beings from a particular place.
p. 19 qar'a'? In the Latin transcription used to write Klingon, the two meanings can be distinguished by a space: {tera'ngan} "Terran, Earther (Humans and other species native to Earth)" and {tera'[ ]ngan} "inhabitant of Earth (regardless of planet of origin)". In speaking, perhaps there is a slight pause in {tera'[ ]ngan}. -- De'vID
Am 20.11.2019 um 15:40 schrieb De'vID:
p. 19 qar'a'?
qarbej.
In the Latin transcription used to write Klingon, the two meanings can be distinguished by a space: {tera'ngan} "Terran, Earther (Humans and other species native to Earth)" and {tera'[ ]ngan} "inhabitant of Earth (regardless of planet of origin)". In speaking, perhaps there is a slight pause in {tera'[ ]ngan}.
But as we all know, Okrand doesn't much care about spaces, and Klingon is a spoken language. ;-) I agree with what you wrote, and suggest for all clearness to say something like tera' DabwI' or so, to make the difference very clear. By the way, I always found it strange that in DSC, they talked about the mirror universe people from the "Terran Empire" as Terrans - because we are Terrans too, so the difference is not clear, and it was even more difficult to translate that into the Klingon subtitles. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/NewWordsQepHom2019
On Wed, 20 Nov 2019 at 15:54, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 20.11.2019 um 15:40 schrieb De'vID:
In the Latin transcription used to write Klingon, the two meanings can be distinguished by a space: {tera'ngan} "Terran, Earther (Humans and other species native to Earth)" and {tera'[ ]ngan} "inhabitant of Earth (regardless of planet of origin)". In speaking, perhaps there is a slight pause in {tera'[ ]ngan}.
But as we all know, Okrand doesn't much care about spaces, and Klingon is a spoken language. ;-)
He doesn't care much about spaces when it comes to compound words and their individual components. However, he distinguishes between words and suffixes, and I don't know how significant this is, but the qepHom booklet says "{-ngan}" and not {ngan}. This suggests that while the standalone word {ngan} means "inhabitant (of)", there's a very similar suffix-like thing which is used to indicate a group of beings more generally (and which may have been historically or etymologically related to the standalone word). -- De'vID
On 11/20/2019 9:54 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
By the way, I always found it strange that in DSC, they talked about the mirror universe people from the "Terran Empire" as Terrans - because we are Terrans too, so the difference is not clear, and it was even more difficult to translate that into the Klingon subtitles.
I don't know what you ultimately chose to do, but these would just be *tera' wo'* and *tera'ngan* — and any ambiguity would be completely justified, since the humans of the Terran Empire are just as much Earthlings as the humans of the United Federation of Planets. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
Am 20.11.2019 um 15:21 schrieb SuStel:
Not yet mentioned on this list is the information on page [...]
Thanks, SuStel, for your analysis. I've added those to the page at the wiki for future reference. When I get the time, the word explanation pages will also be updated. http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/NewWordsQepHom2019 -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de
participants (3)
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De'vID -
Lieven L. Litaer -
SuStel