[tlhIngan Hol] {je} "too" applying to the adverb

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Wed Mar 30 06:11:01 PDT 2022

On 3/30/2022 7:39 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
> chalqachDaq bIQaDbe' je
> even in a tower you are not safe
> I think this sentence shows that the {je} "too" *can* indeed refer to 
> the type-5'ed noun of the sentence too. I know that the translation is 
> given as "even.." instead of "at a tower you aren't safe too", but 
> obviously this is just a matter of choice of words. The only way I can 
> understand it is "in a tower you aren't safe too", i.e. "among the 
> various places where you aren't safe, is a tower too".

You are applying the grammar of the English sentence to the Klingon 
sentence, but the grammar of the Klingon sentence is different.

In English, you can move the /even/ around to apply it to different 
elements. /Even in a tower, you are not safe. In a tower, even you are 
not safe. In a tower, you are not even safe./

In Klingon, you can't do this. You've either got the adverbial *vabDot,* 
or you've got the leftover *je* used adverbially, and each is fixed in 
position. Klingon can't /even/ individual parts of a sentence; it can 
only /even/ entire sentences.

> So perhaps it is possible to say:
> ngugh bIpujpu'
> DaH bIpuj je
> You were weak then
> You're weak now too

The perfective on the first sentence is wrong. Being weak is a quality, 
not an action that is completed. There might be some unusual situations 
where being weak can be described as performed and completed, but this 
isn't one of them.

*ngugh bIpuj.
DaH bIpuj je.*

The ability to decide which part of the sentence gets the /too/ in the 
English translation comes from context. The first sentence happened /at 
that time;/ the second sentence happens /now./ That's the only thing 
that changed between the two sentences, so obviously it's the element 
that is being /too/'d. But this isn't indicated in any way in the 
grammar of the second sentence.

/At that time you were weak.
"Now you are weak" is also a true statement./

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