transport or transporter?
In TKD, the following words are defined: {jol} "transport beam" {jolpa'} "transport room" These definitions are used consistently throughout the book, in both the body and the word lists, and in the translations of these sentences containing these words: {jolpa'[Daq] yIjaH} "Go to the transport room!" {jol yIchu'} "Activate the transport beam!" Outside of TKD (including in both the filmed dialogue and written script of Star Trek III), these are always referred to as the "transporter beam" and "transporter room" in English. (Indeed, the English version of the lines in the script which are spoken in Klingon say "transporter".) Question: Should these definitions and lines be "corrected" to say "transporter" instead, in maintained word lists? It was recently pointed out to me that {boQwI'} had defined these "erroneously" as "transport beam" and "transport room", the user assuming and expecting the "transporter" versions to be correct. Of course, {boQwI'} is just following TKD here. But if these are agreed to be canon errors, then the entries should be corrected and noted, as other errors are. Weirdly, there is also this word which uses "transporter" in the definition: {jolvoy'} "transporter ionizer unit" This is most certainly a transposition of "transporter unit ionizer": https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Transporter_unit_ionizer Later, in Power Klingon, {jol SeHlaw} is translated as "transporter control panel". Still later, the Klingon BIrd-Of-Prey poster translates {jolpa'} as "transporter room". So there's canon justification for changing the definitions to use "transporter". -- De'vID
On 5/2/2021 5:01 PM, De'vID wrote:
In TKD, the following words are defined: {jol} "transport beam" {jolpa'} "transport room"
These definitions are used consistently throughout the book, in both the body and the word lists, and in the translations of these sentences containing these words: {jolpa'[Daq] yIjaH} "Go to the transport room!" {jol yIchu'} "Activate the transport beam!"
Outside of TKD (including in both the filmed dialogue and written script of Star Trek III), these are always referred to as the "transporter beam" and "transporter room" in English. (Indeed, the English version of the lines in the script which are spoken in Klingon say "transporter".)
Question: Should these definitions and lines be "corrected" to say "transporter" instead, in maintained word lists?
It was recently pointed out to me that {boQwI'} had defined these "erroneously" as "transport beam" and "transport room", the user assuming and expecting the "transporter" versions to be correct. Of course, {boQwI'} is just following TKD here. But if these are agreed to be canon errors, then the entries should be corrected and noted, as other errors are.
Weirdly, there is also this word which uses "transporter" in the definition: {jolvoy'} "transporter ionizer unit"
This is most certainly a transposition of "transporter unit ionizer": https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Transporter_unit_ionizer <https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Transporter_unit_ionizer>
Later, in Power Klingon, {jol SeHlaw} is translated as "transporter control panel". Still later, the Klingon BIrd-Of-Prey poster translates {jolpa'} as "transporter room". So there's canon justification for changing the definitions to use "transporter".
/Transporter/ and /transport/ are synonymous in this context, and the Klingons say /transport /in /Star Trek III. /There's no error here. Okrand was just going along with the terminology of the movie he made the dictionary for. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On Sun, 2 May 2021 at 23:10, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
*Transporter* and *transport* are synonymous in this context, and the Klingons say *transport *in *Star Trek III. *There's no error here. Okrand was just going along with the terminology of the movie he made the dictionary for.
I agree that this isn't an error, so much as two alternative terms, one of which is (or has become) much more popular than the other. Maybe at the time that TKD was written, "transport beam" and "transport room" were still in somewhat common use, but if I bet if you ask any Star Trek fan today what the "correct" terminology is, almost everyone would say "transporter beam" and "transporter room".
If you search chakoteya.net (one of the most popular Star Trek transcript repositories), there are 2 instances of "transport beam" vs. 57 of "transporter beam", and 1 instance of "transport room" vs. 333 of "transporter room". Clearly, the "transporter" variants of these terms are by far more common. In Google Books Ngram viewer (not restricted to Star Trek), "transporter beam" has been winning out over "transport beam", and ditto for "room": https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=transport+beam%2C+transporter+... https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=transport+room%2Ctransporter+r... (Before Star Trek, the terms had been used in civil and electrical engineering.) I also found an instance on the Klingon CD (in the language lab) of Marc Okrand saying "The Klingon word for transporter beam is {jol}." https://youtu.be/Bjp9t85pEr0?t=13 So it seems that, after TKD (2ed. in 1992, but the {jol} words appear unchanged from the original 1985 edition), even Dr. Okrand switched to using the "transporter" variant consistently (Power Klingon [1993], Klingon CD [1996], Bird-Of-Prey poster [1998]). It's not an error, but it is somewhat of an anachronism to preserve the "transport" variants as the default definitions. It's basically a stylistic choice, I suppose. -- De'vID
Am 03.05.2021 um 10:19 schrieb De'vID:
it is somewhat of an anachronism to preserve the "transport" variants as the default definitions. It's basically a stylistic choice, I suppose.
I would support the "correction" of the definition, and keep a note for the inconsistent definition. Besides, something similar happened to "painstik", which is obviously a "stick", but Memory Alpha also lists it as "stik". The Ngram search shows an interesting result though, which is close to 50/50 usage. chakoteya is not usable for the painstik search, because the transcriptions are based on what is spoken, not the original scripts, so you don't hear the diference when spoken. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/Word/Jol
participants (3)
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De'vID -
Lieven L. Litaer -
SuStel